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Old 07-11-2020, 04:40 PM   #211
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Sony got out of the e-reader market because they weren't selling e-books, and yet...

Sony continues to sell e-ink devices, but to a niche pdf-reading market. They continue to find value in producing e-readers. Why not B&N? I assume B&N sell a lot more e-readers than Sony.
Sony also sells those devices for considerably more than the Nook. As a result they don't need to worry about content sales to bolster their profit margin.

We also don't know if Sony has other deals that are required of the law firms etc who purchase their ereaders. It's hardly a consumer level device at the pricing, and the content it's able to handle.
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Old 07-11-2020, 04:58 PM   #212
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Originally Posted by Pajamaman View Post
Sony got out of the e-reader market because they weren't selling e-books, and yet...

Sony continues to sell e-ink devices, but to a niche pdf-reading market. They continue to find value in producing e-readers. Why not B&N? I assume B&N sell a lot more e-readers than Sony.
Sony makes more off one eink document viewer (strictly speaking they're not ebook readers if they don't supoort an ebook format) than B&N makes off a dozen readers alone. And that's after recent price drops ($699).

https://www.sony.com/electronics/dig...ads/dpt-series

Remember, the markup on ebooks is 30%...over and over...year after year.
Over the life of a reader (say 5 years) a person might spend $130 on the hardware and $1000 on books. So $300 profit vs $30?

Sony sells the readers for $700 and that's it. That's all they get. No recurring life cycle revenues. For Nook to match even a one year ebook revenue they'd have to sell the reader for around $200-300.

Of course, Nook *isn't* averaging even $30 a year from all their readers still in use and it's because a big portion, probably the majority of their customers can and do get their books elsewhere.

Selling hardware and living just off that margin is 20th century thinking.
The smarter companies are long past that. Recurring revenue is the modern way to get *big* rich.

Nook's problem is their garden is only walled one way and it has the wrong lock-in; the books are proprietary but the hardware is open. Good for customers but bad for Nook. Demonstrated by the stampede of Nook customers to generic Adept vendors. Nook has gone from 25% ebook market share to less than 4% in a *growing* market.

That's a big disfunction.
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Old 07-11-2020, 05:09 PM   #213
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Selling hardware and living just off that margin is 20th century thinking.
The smarter companies are long past that. Recurring revenue is the modern way to get *big* rich.
So you're on board with the idea of auto companies charging annual fees to operate accessories like seat warmers?
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Old 07-11-2020, 06:34 PM   #214
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Nook's problem is their garden is only walled one way and it has the wrong lock-in; the books are proprietary but the hardware is open. Good for customers but bad for Nook. Demonstrated by the stampede of Nook customers to generic Adept vendors. Nook has gone from 25% ebook market share to less than 4% in a *growing* market.
You know, since somebody else mentioned it, I think it would be a good idea of B&N just adopted generic adobe DRM. I don't know what the charge would be per book or how it works. But it would make customers more willing to spend their $$$ there.

How many times have you seen the message 'I stopped buying from them when it became increasingly difficult to back my books up' or something similar.
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Old 07-11-2020, 06:39 PM   #215
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You know, since somebody else mentioned it, I think it would be a good idea of B&N just adopted generic adobe DRM. I don't know what the charge would be per book or how it works. But it would make customers more willing to spend their $$$ there.

How many times have you seen the message 'I stopped buying from them when it became increasingly difficult to back my books up' or something similar.
Is that really a significant fraction of the market?
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Old 07-11-2020, 06:59 PM   #216
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Is that really a significant fraction of the market?
I don't have the numbers and couldn't say. People who do say that also tend to be people who buy many books. But admittedly, that's anecdotal evidence.

At any rate, it would allow B&N to sell ebooks to people who don't have a Nook. And if B&N isn't making much on the Nook hardware sales anyway, what's the harm?
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Old 07-11-2020, 07:06 PM   #217
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Is that really a significant fraction of the market?
If they switched to Adobe's standard DRM, they might also pick up some customers from Google Play, Kobo, etc. Or customers from outside the USA.

As for the number of people wanting to back up their B&N ebooks? Outside of MobileRead, that would be a rather infinitesimal number IMNSHO.
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Old 07-11-2020, 07:10 PM   #218
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I don't have the numbers and couldn't say. People who do say that also tend to be people who buy many books. But admittedly, that's anecdotal evidence.

At any rate, it would allow B&N to sell ebooks to people who don't have a Nook. And if B&N isn't making much on the Nook hardware sales anyway, what's the harm?
I do wonder how much of an increase it'd be for BN/Nook. They're already able to sell to anyone with a tablet or smart phone via the Nook app. But I agree, it's not like they're in a position to turn away money right now. if they can make something off the people who bought Kobos or Kindles etc and have no intention of buying a Nook, that's more than they'll make by not selling to them.
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Old 07-11-2020, 07:11 PM   #219
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So you're on board with the idea of auto companies charging annual fees to operate accessories like seat warmers?
No.
That is cluelessness.
No rational person will go for that.
You either own it or you don't.
But aftermarket sales at authorized dealers bring in a steady stream and modern car designs that reduce backyard maintenance are the rule today.

Also, Tesla's supercharger network does. And it too brings in recurring revenues. And their plan for letting owners monetize their cars while not in use might.

https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/t...ram-elon-musk/

Tesla sells the car and gets a share of the owner's ride-share revenue.

Did you know TV makers get a cut of ad revenue generated by their "Smart" apps?

https://theoutline.com/post/8421/sma...=1&zi=rhm3bzfa

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But the most interesting and telling reason for why TVs are now so cheap is because TV manufacturers have found a new revenue stream: advertising. If you buy a new TV today, you’re most likely buying a “smart” TV with software from either the manufacturer itself or a third-party company like Roku. The cut of the advertising revenue from those pre-installed video channels is big business for actual TV makers, as is the business of selling user viewing data and other information to marketers.
Look around, lots of products come with hidden after-sale revenue streams.
More will.
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Old 07-11-2020, 07:11 PM   #220
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Of course, Nook *isn't* averaging even $30 a year from all their readers still in use and it's because a big portion, probably the majority of their customers can and do get their books elsewhere.
Just curious where you got this figure.

I figured Nooks where on the way out but, apparently, the new CEO sees (at least) the possibility of making money with them. Maybe he's seeing something you an I aren't seeing. (For example, maybe Nook book sales have jumped with the Covid isolation.)
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Old 07-11-2020, 07:14 PM   #221
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You know, since somebody else mentioned it, I think it would be a good idea of B&N just adopted generic adobe DRM. I don't know what the charge would be per book or how it works. But it would make customers more willing to spend their $$$ there.

How many times have you seen the message 'I stopped buying from them when it became increasingly difficult to back my books up' or something similar.
They're already paying the Adobe Tax to enable library ebooks so it wouldn't cost much if anything. That's part if why it's such a head scratcher that they don't. They're limiting their ebook sales.
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Old 07-11-2020, 07:24 PM   #222
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Just curious where you got this figure.

I figured Nooks where on the way out but, apparently, the new CEO sees (at least) the possibility of making money with them. Maybe he's seeing something you an I aren't seeing. (For example, maybe Nook book sales have jumped with the Covid isolation.)
Their last full year financial statement.
The $92m full year number for hardware and software combined.

https://www.bloomberg.com/press-rele...ancial-results

From before the lockdowns, yes, but the lockdowns aren't boosting low single digits into even Kobo territory.

Remember, the BPHs get about 15-20% of their gross revenues from ebooks, so just their ebook sales add up $1-2B. And Nook's share is... barely noticeable.

ebooks are big business and Nook isn't.

What Daunt is seeing is that even a dead cat bounces higher.
Nothing can make it lower, short of closing Nook.
It's got to do better even if all they do is reassure people they're not closing.

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Old 07-11-2020, 07:41 PM   #223
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If they switched to Adobe's standard DRM, they might also pick up some customers from Google Play, Kobo, etc. Or customers from outside the USA.

As for the number of people wanting to back up their B&N ebooks? Outside of MobileRead, that would be a rather infinitesimal number IMNSHO.
Maybe I linked two ideas together I didn't mean to. B&N's sales have dropped, tremendously. I'm sure the inability to download books isn't the primary driver.

The second half was intended just for what I've seen here. Even people that buy Nooks and care enough about ebooks to post here have stopped buying from B&N. One reason frequently mentioned in this group is the inability to back up their books.

So if B&N moved to standard Adept DRM, that problem would go away. Additionally, it would allow non-Nook users to purchase books from them.
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Old 07-11-2020, 08:00 PM   #224
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So if B&N moved to standard Adept DRM, that problem would go away. Additionally, it would allow non-Nook users to purchase books from them.
Even if they simply add ADEPT downloads *beside* their proprietary DRM (like Kobo with KEPUB and ADEPT) it can only help.
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Old 07-13-2020, 07:41 AM   #225
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The second half was intended just for what I've seen here. Even people that buy Nooks and care enough about ebooks to post here have stopped buying from B&N. One reason frequently mentioned in this group is the inability to back up their books.

So if B&N moved to standard Adept DRM, that problem would go away. Additionally, it would allow non-Nook users to purchase books from them.
I don't understand why people say they cannot back up nook books. I have been using a nook since day one and have all my nook books backed up. Granted you have to locate the folder in Windows 10 where they are stored but once found then there is no problem.

Also you can read standard Adept DRM books on a nook, so I think there strategy was to lure those users over to them..
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