Author Issues E-Book Challenge - Page 4

NatCh · 07-09-2010, 05:25 PM

I believe he is using iTunes, pricecw, but I haven't figured out how do check for sure, since I don't use iTunes -- as a principled objection to the (my) perceived totalitarianism of Apple.

pricecw · 07-09-2010, 06:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NatCh

I believe he is using iTunes, pricecw, but I haven't figured out how do check for sure, since I don't use iTunes -- as a principled objection to the (my) perceived totalitarianism of Apple.

That is good for him if he is, since that is another new large market. Even if it was there, wouldn't help me. iTunes fails me too on the DRM side of things (as well as a few others)!

--Carl

rhadin · 07-10-2010, 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NatCh

since I don't use iTunes -- as a principled objection to the (my) perceived totalitarianism of Apple.

It's always good to learn that there are at least 2 of us who aren't Apple lickers

pricecw · 07-10-2010, 05:43 PM

I like the ipod for holding mp3's from elsewhere, but the iPad was a serious letdown. Was ordering when they came out, and the entourage edge was my selection at that time. I couldn't even develop for the iPad (even if I had a mac) because the terms in the license are so bad, it would violate my employment terms just to agree to them (I think that is the most missed part when people look at iWhatever development)!

Anyway, I hope my voice as a consumer can make some authors think as they move to the e-world. I really want to see them succeed. I don't need free, but I do need value for my money, and the typical respect that you should give to a person in polite society.

--Carl

pwalker8 · 07-11-2010, 11:03 AM

Well, on the payment page, he also gives you the opportunity to pay by check or money order.

I'm really not trying to be rude or cause an argument, but it comes across that you are more focused on reasons for taking offense and not doing something than you are for actually doing business with the man. If you don't want to do business with paypal, then he gives you the option of sending him a check or money order. He also has it available on the kindle, without DRM, which means it's very easy to download the kindle software, buy the book and transfer it to the device of your choosing.

Sometimes you just have to meet people halfway. Sometimes the expense involved precludes a small business person from offering a vast array of payment options.

pricecw · 07-11-2010, 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pwalker8

I'm really not trying to be rude or cause an argument, but it comes across that you are more focused on reasons for taking offense and not doing something than you are for actually doing business with the man..

I think you are missing the point I was making. I am trying to point out why sales may not reach what he wants, and why they may not reach their potential.

I'm not taking offense, but just trying to have a discussion on the marketing and mistakes that authors can make that leads to lower turnover than they hoped for. For this I used my own issues as examples, but you could have picked everything perfect for me, and lost a different customer.

I would be hard pressed to take offense, he isn't forcing me to do anything, and I'm not forcing him to do anything. Just trying to discuss things. As others have said, maybe he sees the market from other than PayPal and Kindle to not be worth the hassle. No problem, no harm, no foul for me.

--Carl

BTW--I can't imagine buying an ebook, for electronic delivery, over the internet, using a check or money order. Again personal decision, but why?

NatCh · 07-11-2010, 09:21 PM

That idea always seemed odd to me too, pricecw, but Baen offers the same thing. I guess either there are enough folks interested in it to make it worthwhile (perhaps folks who don't use credit cards at all?), or it's so little trouble/expense that they figure "why not?"

pricecw · 07-11-2010, 10:33 PM

Yep, I think I get why they offer it, just don't see why I would do it. After all, I am advocating taking and distributing as wide as possible, that is one that is generally easy to do.

--Carl

clockworkzombie · 07-17-2010, 06:49 PM

I purchased both books. I was initially irritated by the amount of personal information required but as I am self employed I used my work contact details all of which are freely available.

The only thing that will stop me using any shopping cart is badly designed customer detail forms such as a form that you fill out and at the bottom it asks for a country which you select then it resets the whole form, missing info, reset form. I give such sites 2 extra attempts before ignoring them forever. The better sites ask for contact details and also have a paypal button option which skips the customer login section. Lots of people have had problems with paypal but I am not one of them.

I have read some of the authors work previously and liked it and both books appealed to me so it is all good. I hope he does write a sequel.

mknopp · 07-30-2010, 10:10 AM

I bought both of his books and hope that he succeeds in his endeavor, if for no other reason than to help liberate authors from publishers, if they so wish.

Just out of curiosity, for those of you who are upset with something or way he does something, what do you think he should do?

I am not trying to be rude, but honestly would like to know.

According to wikipedia (not the best source but good enough for this) there are 26 different eBook formats. Arguably, many of these are old and outdated, but still. A quick search of wikipedia again shows that of all listed eBook readers only the Kindle cannot read ePub formatted books. To address that he has offered the book in the mobibook format through Amazon. So, he has made his work available in two formats which are readable on virtually every, if not every, eBook reader out there. At what point does demanding different formats be made available become a bit ridiculous, and at what point is the ROI for the author not worth it? While it isn't anywhere near what the publishers want you to believe, it does take time and effort to create an ebook format. As an author, and a reader, I am hard pressed to see why he should make his books available in a format other than ePub and Mobi. I just don't see a reasonable ROI on that work.

As for payment methods. The last time I purchased from Mr. Stackpole's store, about a year ago, he took CC sales directly, and I don't remember him taking Paypal. Therefore, it is obvious that he is still trying to feel out the best way to do business with his customers. Personally, I think that Paypal is a reasonable alternative to taking CC sales directly. Also, he has made his books available in the Amazon store and in the iBookstore. However, a quick browsing of Google Checkout doesn't show anything significantly different from Paypal as to preclude his offering through them, but I don't know all of the specifics.

Regarding the personal information that many of you state he wants to collect. I see this as either a remnant of the time when he was using CC for payment and such information is necessary to combat CC number theft (ergo, the supplied address doesn't match the billing address). However, you also need to keep in mind that we live in a very litigious society. While I enjoy Mr. Stackpole's work, and it isn't explicit, many of his works deal with adult themes. In his Trip Malloy short stories the protagonist works at a strip club as a bouncer and is often dealing with crimes. Honestly, with how some parents would be more than happy to sue someone for "allowing" their children to read such stories I think asking for an age is a minimum of what he might need to do to cover himself if it should come to that. You see it as an invasion of privacy. He and his attorney may see it as a means of avoiding a multi-million dollar lawsuit by someone looking to collect because he didn't take prudent measures to keep children from reading age inappropriate stories.

As for why he isn't offering the eBook through B&N or Borders, can an independent author even post eBooks for sale on these two stores? I have no idea why he isn't offering it on smashwords. Other than I don't know all of the ins and outs of the service. I know that they take a cut of your sales, and that they offer it through several different store fronts. However, can an author pick and choose which store fronts he wishes to distribute to? For instance, can he state that he wants to offer his book for sale through Smashwords to B&N and Borders and Kobo, but not the iBookstore or Amazon? If not, then the percentage in sales that they take from the iBookstore and Amazon might not make up for the extra he would make from the added storefronts.

Michael Stackpole is pretty vocal about the fact that in the world of eBooks a person needs to be both an author and a business person. Perhaps some of what upsets people here are simply mistakes made by an author learning about the best way to do business, or perhaps they are simply unfortunate realities of the way business needs to be done in the US to keep the author safe and solvent. Honestly, I don't know the answer to that, but he seems very responsive to feedback, so I would let him know about your concerns.

pricecw · 07-30-2010, 04:05 PM

I have posted alot, so I will answer. I am not upset, but I simply tried to point out what actions the author took, that precluded me from purchasing his work (and I assume, may preclude others for the same reason). I don't read from Amazon or iTunes, and I won't use Paypal.

I really wanted to point out to him and potentially other authors how easy it is to lose a sale after you have done all the hard work taken to get your book recognized and an individual to the point of sale.

Honestly, I don't know why people keep thinking when you point these things out your upset. If I never buy the book, and never read it, I won't be any worse off. As I have said before, no harm, no foul.

However, I also don't think an author who doesn't do everything possible to allow people to purchase his work, can claim he tried to sell e-books, but the market wasn't there. It might have been, and he cut it off and couldn't meet the numbers he wanted. Of course, I may be an outlier, and he doesn't miss my business, again, all is good.

--Carl

pwalker8 · 08-01-2010, 04:40 PM

I think the point that you seem to be missing is that the author seems to be bending over backwards to make various pay options available - paypal, check, money order, iTunes, Amazon. It's simply not economically viable to meet everyones personal whims, especially when you are only handling a small volume. When you take a my way or not at all stance, then you come across as hypocritical when you complain that the author "doesn't want to do the work to support multiple formats and payment options". The answer is the author does support multiple formats and payment options, just not the one specific option that you insist on.

pricecw · 08-01-2010, 10:19 PM

Again, I am saying that to reach the most customers, you need to allow them to purchase the way they want, in the format they want. Anything else and you are telling some customers you don't want them. It is simple. It may be what the author wants to do. If so, all is good, but it still doesn't change the fact that a customer came to the point of sale ready to buy and you lost them. If you want all the sales you can get, it might be nice if the customer let you know why you lost the sale, then as a business person, you can decide if you want to do something to get those sales, or if it is better for you to lose them.

Maybe, for this author, only those people willing to by from iTunes, Amazon, or use Paypal, or to buy electronic content with old school transaction types (check, money order), are the customers he wants. Again, I have no problem with that decision. I am not saying he has to change, just trying to give honest feedback on why he didn't make a sale with me.

As for hypocritical, it would be very hypocritical for me to use those systems I don't believe in just to buy a book. It would also be hypocritical of me not to discuss it when the conversation starts. However, it is not hypocritical to say I won't buy it and why. I am not trying to force the author into something, and I am not complaining that the author "doesn't want to do the work to support multiple formats and payment options", I am pointing out why a sale was not made when the hard work was done (getting me to the point of sale ready to buy).

I think the point you seem to be missing in this whole thing is I don't care if I don't read a particular book, there are many books out there to read, and I can't read them all in my lifetime. So, if I can't get one in a way I am comfortable with, it really doesn't bug me. What does bug me is people who think that because I express why I didn't purchase a particular thing, I am attacking the person selling it. I am offering an opinion and an explanation, and they are free to take it or ignore it. Either way, I am in the same good spot as I was before, as I am not the one that cares about making money on the transaction.

--Carl

askyn · 03-13-2011, 04:47 PM

I just wanted to bring this back into the for front of peoples viewing.

I have bought and enjoyed this book and think others would too.

That, and I would really really like to see a sequel made for it.

Check it out, im sure you will enjoy it.

( I have no connection to the author etc, just enjoyed reading the book )

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07-09-2010, 05:25 PM	#46
NatCh Gizmologist Posts: 11,615 Karma: 929550 Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Republic of Texas Embassy at Jackson, TN Device: Pocketbook Touch HD3	I believe he is using iTunes, pricecw, but I haven't figured out how do check for sure, since I don't use iTunes -- as a principled objection to the (my) perceived totalitarianism of Apple.

07-10-2010, 05:43 PM	#49
pricecw Zealot Posts: 100 Karma: 1018 Join Date: Feb 2010 Device: enTourage eDGe	I like the ipod for holding mp3's from elsewhere, but the iPad was a serious letdown. Was ordering when they came out, and the entourage edge was my selection at that time. I couldn't even develop for the iPad (even if I had a mac) because the terms in the license are so bad, it would violate my employment terms just to agree to them (I think that is the most missed part when people look at iWhatever development)! Anyway, I hope my voice as a consumer can make some authors think as they move to the e-world. I really want to see them succeed. I don't need free, but I do need value for my money, and the typical respect that you should give to a person in polite society. --Carl

07-11-2010, 11:03 AM	#50
pwalker8 Grand Sorcerer Posts: 7,195 Karma: 70314280 Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Atlanta, GA Device: iPad Pro, iPad mini, Kobo Aura, Amazon paperwhite, Sony PRS-T2	Well, on the payment page, he also gives you the opportunity to pay by check or money order. I'm really not trying to be rude or cause an argument, but it comes across that you are more focused on reasons for taking offense and not doing something than you are for actually doing business with the man. If you don't want to do business with paypal, then he gives you the option of sending him a check or money order. He also has it available on the kindle, without DRM, which means it's very easy to download the kindle software, buy the book and transfer it to the device of your choosing. Sometimes you just have to meet people halfway. Sometimes the expense involved precludes a small business person from offering a vast array of payment options.

07-11-2010, 09:21 PM	#52
NatCh Gizmologist Posts: 11,615 Karma: 929550 Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Republic of Texas Embassy at Jackson, TN Device: Pocketbook Touch HD3	That idea always seemed odd to me too, pricecw, but Baen offers the same thing. I guess either there are enough folks interested in it to make it worthwhile (perhaps folks who don't use credit cards at all?), or it's so little trouble/expense that they figure "why not?"

07-11-2010, 10:33 PM	#53
pricecw Zealot Posts: 100 Karma: 1018 Join Date: Feb 2010 Device: enTourage eDGe	Yep, I think I get why they offer it, just don't see why I would do it. After all, I am advocating taking and distributing as wide as possible, that is one that is generally easy to do. --Carl

07-17-2010, 06:49 PM	#54
clockworkzombie Connoisseur Posts: 99 Karma: 11962 Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Central Queensland Device: iPad	I purchased both books. I was initially irritated by the amount of personal information required but as I am self employed I used my work contact details all of which are freely available. The only thing that will stop me using any shopping cart is badly designed customer detail forms such as a form that you fill out and at the bottom it asks for a country which you select then it resets the whole form, missing info, reset form. I give such sites 2 extra attempts before ignoring them forever. The better sites ask for contact details and also have a paypal button option which skips the customer login section. Lots of people have had problems with paypal but I am not one of them. I have read some of the authors work previously and liked it and both books appealed to me so it is all good. I hope he does write a sequel.

07-30-2010, 10:10 AM	#55
mknopp Member Posts: 20 Karma: 546 Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: USA Device: iPad	I bought both of his books and hope that he succeeds in his endeavor, if for no other reason than to help liberate authors from publishers, if they so wish. Just out of curiosity, for those of you who are upset with something or way he does something, what do you think he should do? I am not trying to be rude, but honestly would like to know. According to wikipedia (not the best source but good enough for this) there are 26 different eBook formats. Arguably, many of these are old and outdated, but still. A quick search of wikipedia again shows that of all listed eBook readers only the Kindle cannot read ePub formatted books. To address that he has offered the book in the mobibook format through Amazon. So, he has made his work available in two formats which are readable on virtually every, if not every, eBook reader out there. At what point does demanding different formats be made available become a bit ridiculous, and at what point is the ROI for the author not worth it? While it isn't anywhere near what the publishers want you to believe, it does take time and effort to create an ebook format. As an author, and a reader, I am hard pressed to see why he should make his books available in a format other than ePub and Mobi. I just don't see a reasonable ROI on that work. As for payment methods. The last time I purchased from Mr. Stackpole's store, about a year ago, he took CC sales directly, and I don't remember him taking Paypal. Therefore, it is obvious that he is still trying to feel out the best way to do business with his customers. Personally, I think that Paypal is a reasonable alternative to taking CC sales directly. Also, he has made his books available in the Amazon store and in the iBookstore. However, a quick browsing of Google Checkout doesn't show anything significantly different from Paypal as to preclude his offering through them, but I don't know all of the specifics. Regarding the personal information that many of you state he wants to collect. I see this as either a remnant of the time when he was using CC for payment and such information is necessary to combat CC number theft (ergo, the supplied address doesn't match the billing address). However, you also need to keep in mind that we live in a very litigious society. While I enjoy Mr. Stackpole's work, and it isn't explicit, many of his works deal with adult themes. In his Trip Malloy short stories the protagonist works at a strip club as a bouncer and is often dealing with crimes. Honestly, with how some parents would be more than happy to sue someone for "allowing" their children to read such stories I think asking for an age is a minimum of what he might need to do to cover himself if it should come to that. You see it as an invasion of privacy. He and his attorney may see it as a means of avoiding a multi-million dollar lawsuit by someone looking to collect because he didn't take prudent measures to keep children from reading age inappropriate stories. As for why he isn't offering the eBook through B&N or Borders, can an independent author even post eBooks for sale on these two stores? I have no idea why he isn't offering it on smashwords. Other than I don't know all of the ins and outs of the service. I know that they take a cut of your sales, and that they offer it through several different store fronts. However, can an author pick and choose which store fronts he wishes to distribute to? For instance, can he state that he wants to offer his book for sale through Smashwords to B&N and Borders and Kobo, but not the iBookstore or Amazon? If not, then the percentage in sales that they take from the iBookstore and Amazon might not make up for the extra he would make from the added storefronts. Michael Stackpole is pretty vocal about the fact that in the world of eBooks a person needs to be both an author and a business person. Perhaps some of what upsets people here are simply mistakes made by an author learning about the best way to do business, or perhaps they are simply unfortunate realities of the way business needs to be done in the US to keep the author safe and solvent. Honestly, I don't know the answer to that, but he seems very responsive to feedback, so I would let him know about your concerns.

07-30-2010, 04:05 PM	#56
pricecw Zealot Posts: 100 Karma: 1018 Join Date: Feb 2010 Device: enTourage eDGe	I have posted alot, so I will answer. I am not upset, but I simply tried to point out what actions the author took, that precluded me from purchasing his work (and I assume, may preclude others for the same reason). I don't read from Amazon or iTunes, and I won't use Paypal. I really wanted to point out to him and potentially other authors how easy it is to lose a sale after you have done all the hard work taken to get your book recognized and an individual to the point of sale. Honestly, I don't know why people keep thinking when you point these things out your upset. If I never buy the book, and never read it, I won't be any worse off. As I have said before, no harm, no foul. However, I also don't think an author who doesn't do everything possible to allow people to purchase his work, can claim he tried to sell e-books, but the market wasn't there. It might have been, and he cut it off and couldn't meet the numbers he wanted. Of course, I may be an outlier, and he doesn't miss my business, again, all is good. --Carl

08-01-2010, 04:40 PM	#57
pwalker8 Grand Sorcerer Posts: 7,195 Karma: 70314280 Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Atlanta, GA Device: iPad Pro, iPad mini, Kobo Aura, Amazon paperwhite, Sony PRS-T2	I think the point that you seem to be missing is that the author seems to be bending over backwards to make various pay options available - paypal, check, money order, iTunes, Amazon. It's simply not economically viable to meet everyones personal whims, especially when you are only handling a small volume. When you take a my way or not at all stance, then you come across as hypocritical when you complain that the author "doesn't want to do the work to support multiple formats and payment options". The answer is the author does support multiple formats and payment options, just not the one specific option that you insist on.

08-01-2010, 10:19 PM	#58
pricecw Zealot Posts: 100 Karma: 1018 Join Date: Feb 2010 Device: enTourage eDGe	Again, I am saying that to reach the most customers, you need to allow them to purchase the way they want, in the format they want. Anything else and you are telling some customers you don't want them. It is simple. It may be what the author wants to do. If so, all is good, but it still doesn't change the fact that a customer came to the point of sale ready to buy and you lost them. If you want all the sales you can get, it might be nice if the customer let you know why you lost the sale, then as a business person, you can decide if you want to do something to get those sales, or if it is better for you to lose them. Maybe, for this author, only those people willing to by from iTunes, Amazon, or use Paypal, or to buy electronic content with old school transaction types (check, money order), are the customers he wants. Again, I have no problem with that decision. I am not saying he has to change, just trying to give honest feedback on why he didn't make a sale with me. As for hypocritical, it would be very hypocritical for me to use those systems I don't believe in just to buy a book. It would also be hypocritical of me not to discuss it when the conversation starts. However, it is not hypocritical to say I won't buy it and why. I am not trying to force the author into something, and I am not complaining that the author "doesn't want to do the work to support multiple formats and payment options", I am pointing out why a sale was not made when the hard work was done (getting me to the point of sale ready to buy). I think the point you seem to be missing in this whole thing is I don't care if I don't read a particular book, there are many books out there to read, and I can't read them all in my lifetime. So, if I can't get one in a way I am comfortable with, it really doesn't bug me. What does bug me is people who think that because I express why I didn't purchase a particular thing, I am attacking the person selling it. I am offering an opinion and an explanation, and they are free to take it or ignore it. Either way, I am in the same good spot as I was before, as I am not the one that cares about making money on the transaction. --Carl

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03-13-2011, 04:47 PM	#59
askyn Addict Posts: 300 Karma: 1006538 Join Date: Jul 2008 Device: Kindle Paperwhite (11th Gen)	I just wanted to bring this back into the for front of peoples viewing. I have bought and enjoyed this book and think others would too. That, and I would really really like to see a sequel made for it. Check it out, im sure you will enjoy it. ( I have no connection to the author etc, just enjoyed reading the book )