B.R.O.C. -- Big Reading-Device On Campus? - Page 2

NatCh · 08-26-2008, 12:02 PM

This article from the Chronicle of Higher Education would seem to be relevant to the current discussion.

An excerpt:

Quote:

A growing number of textbook publishers are offering digital editions these days, but a new study by a student group argues that many of those digital editions do not have the features that students want.

[snip]

[The group] found that students wanted digital textbooks to be more affordable than print versions, to be printable, and to be free from restrictions on how long they can be viewed. But the report said that the electronic textbooks offered by major publishers through CourseSmart, generally cost about the same as printed versions, limited printing to 10 pages per session, and expire after about 180 days.

I'm tempted to just quote the whole article (it's pretty short), but that doesn't seem neighborly.

So follow this link for the rest.

DixieGal · 08-26-2008, 12:15 PM

Well, that doesn't seem like a very fair way to play, does it. So, since the gloves are coming off....

Plan B: The tech savvy kids in Comp Sci will begin to format pbooks for e-reading, and then sell the pirated books for a fraction of the cost to the art and lit majors.

zelda_pinwheel · 08-26-2008, 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DixieGal

Well, that doesn't seem like a very fair way to play, does it. So, since the gloves are coming off....

Plan B: The tech savvy kids in Comp Sci will begin to format pbooks for e-reading, and then sell the pirated books for a fraction of the cost to the art and lit majors.

you know, i can't help but feel, in light of the greedy and arbitrary restrictions placed on etextbooks by the publishers, when that does happen (because it's not "if" ; it's only a matter of time...) they will have brought it upon themselves.

Taylor514ce · 08-26-2008, 01:01 PM

Meanwhile, I dress exactly like the dude in the picture. Hat and all. Except no hair. Uncanny.

daffy4u · 08-26-2008, 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pilotbob

I dunno. Just because a rumor is picked up and passed around by alot of places doesn't make it any less of a rumor. Remember, in the days of internet blogs the same information is passed like wild fire. No one does their own research or try to confirm with a source. Even Engaget and Tech Crunch are "blogs" that sometimes get info from other places. I have seen articles at Engaget that are passing around stuff that originated on this site as specuation.

BOb

The textbooks are not a rumor.

As far as TechCrunch, I don't doubt there are other Kindle versions being designed. Bezos himself has said there will be a Kindle 10.0. I don't know if one of the new versions will be out in October as TC reported. That for sure I'll concede is rumor.

There are so many posts daily on the Amazon boards from students who want textbooks on the Kindle and we have confirmation that Amazon actually reads the boards (an employee posted in a thread about the publisher's link problem and they've moved a FAQ started by and added to by board participants to the top of the boards to replace their own). I believe Amazon wants the student market and is going for it. They are listening.

nekokami · 08-26-2008, 01:26 PM

Of the 6 books required for my graduate classes this semester, one was available to read online for free or download the PDF for a reduced price compared to the paper version, and one was available in Kindle format (but I don't have a Kindle, so I couldn't buy it, even though I could have arranged to read it subsequently). The rest only exist as dead-tree versions. One of my professors has not made the booklist available prior to the start of the semester, insisting that we go to the local college bookstore to find out what is needed. The bookstore doesn't let you check the aisles, but fetches the books for you. I paid $153.90, walked back to my office, and discovered that one was the wrong edition (the bookstore had 3d edition, the professor has specified second edition), two were provided in hardcover when paperback versions were available, and all were significantly higher-priced than I could find online, even taking shipping into account. I've re-ordered the books online (new cost: $102.81) and I'm returning the books I bought tonight.

That $50 covers the cost of my lunches for about two months, plus some. But many faculty at this university seem to think that they have to "support" the local textbook store (not owned by the university) and are highly resistant to giving out their textbook lists in advance of classes, despite numerous formal requests by the student senate.

Somehow, I don't think those professors would be interested in helping students get ebook versions instead, either.

Daithi · 08-26-2008, 03:07 PM

I have to say that my experience is similar to Nekokami. It also seems to me that the textbook publishers are continually publishing new versions of textbooks. They are not doing this because a course has changed, but only to insure that students will have to buy the new textbook and not a used copy. Why on earth do we need an 11th edition of first year calculus? Why does it cost $175? Why do the professors and universities support the practices of the textbook publishers?

On one hand e-books would be great for students, but I could see textbook publishers loving them as well. For one thing it would elliminate used copies of textbooks, and the publishers would no longer have to go through the expense of revising their editions every three years or so.

Personally, I'd like to see more open-textbook projects, and this could really flourish in an e-book environment.

jamesdmanley · 08-26-2008, 04:29 PM

if this were letter sized, search able, and you could make notes with a stylus that would be awesome. problem is, it would probably cost $500-1000 and it would be a decade before all text books are available digitally. unfortunately, im not going to pay that much, or wait that long. maybe for grad school ... shoot, ill probably be done with that too buy then. sigh. oh well

daffy4u · 08-26-2008, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jamesdmanley

if this were letter sized, search able, and you could make notes with a stylus that would be awesome. problem is, it would probably cost $500-1000 and it would be a decade before all text books are available digitally. unfortunately, im not going to pay that much, or wait that long. maybe for grad school ... shoot, ill probably be done with that too buy then. sigh. oh well

Over the course of a college career (for some it is a career), if the eTextbooks are cheap enough, the higher price of the reader would not be that big of a deal. Might even be a high school graduation gift for some.

JSWolf · 08-26-2008, 04:42 PM

There are no screens in letter size. The biggest we will have will be 9.7 and that's not until next year sometime once it is figured out how to make then stable enough so they don't break. Until then, the largest screen we have that's stable is on the iLiad. So while the rumers say October, don't beive it even if it is true about new models with larger screens. So if you are waiting for a Kindle with a large screen vs getting one now, good luck. You won't get one this year. In fact, it's unknown when the 9.7" screens will be available. All we have to go on is a guess of next year sometime. So if there is a new Kindle out this year, it'll still have a 6" screen.

jamesdmanley · 08-26-2008, 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by daffy4u

Over the course of a college career (for some it is a career), if the eTextbooks are cheap enough, the higher price of the reader would not be that big of a deal. Might even be a high school graduation gift for some.

considering what ive seen from the textbook industry and current digital text books, i doubt they would discount the electronic version much. 50% off would be nice, but with a captive market ... sigh. besides, you would lose the ability to resell or gift the text once youre done

daffy4u · 08-26-2008, 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jamesdmanley

considering what ive seen from the textbook industry and current digital text books, i doubt they would discount the electronic version much. 50% off would be nice, but with a captive market ... sigh. besides, you would lose the ability to resell or gift the text once youre done

Not being able to re-sell could be a good reason to discount the books. Suppose the books were designed to expire in 6-12 months (like a longer library book loan). Then the price could be dropped much more since everyone would have to purchase (rent) every 6-12 months.

Thank goodness I don't have to deal with that stuff.

nekokami · 08-26-2008, 05:35 PM

I'd like to see more ability to pick and choose from textbooks, to be honest. Last semester a professor I took a class with had us buy over $100 worth of books, but we only read portions of many of them. It would have been nice to only have to purchase those portions. And I think it could avoid a lot of faculty thinking they need to create a completely new textbook in a field that hasn't changed that much (even some technical fields), if they could select the most appropriate chapters from several existing textbooks.

bbusybookworm · 08-26-2008, 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by daffy4u

Not being able to re-sell could be a good reason to discount the books. Suppose the books were designed to expire in 6-12 months (like a longer library book loan). Then the price could be dropped much more since everyone would have to purchase (rent) every 6-12 months.

Thank goodness I don't have to deal with that stuff.

i kind of have to disagree with the Option to expire the ebooks after a short time, unless the price is substantially reduced, to say 10% of the normal cost.

I tend to keep all my textbooks, and often use them for referance or refreshing myself to certain ideas. And even the books I don't want to keep, I can usually resell them for 50% to 60% of the price. And Its up to me as to what I can do with it. I'm afraid that publishers, especially with a captive market would try to gouge their potential market.

If however the price was quiet low, or in the form of a subscription that allowed me to access all the books I need, and allow me enough freedom to mark up and print (hard copy or electronicly) the sections I need, I probably wouldn't mind so much. Especially if they then offered a discount for the permanent purchase in Pbook or open eBook format of those book I want to keep.

but I come to believe that expecting radical or even not so radical ideas from universities or publishers can be a fools errand.

daffy4u · 08-26-2008, 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bbusybookworm

i kind of have to disagree with the Option to expire the ebooks after a short time, unless the price is substantially reduced, to say 10% of the normal cost.

I tend to keep all my textbooks, and often use them for referance or refreshing myself to certain ideas. And even the books I don't want to keep, I can usually resell them for 50% to 60% of the price. And Its up to me as to what I can do with it. I'm afraid that publishers, especially with a captive market would try to gouge their potential market.

If however the price was quiet low, or in the form of a subscription that allowed me to access all the books I need, and allow me enough freedom to mark up and print (hard copy or electronicly) the sections I need, I probably wouldn't mind so much. Especially if they then offered a discount for the permanent purchase in Pbook or open eBook format of those book I want to keep.

but I come to believe that expecting radical or even not so radical ideas from universities or publishers can be a fools errand.

Hey, let's keep throwing out ideas. Maybe someone in power will see them and like them.

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08-26-2008, 12:15 PM	#17
DixieGal Hi There! Posts: 7,473 Karma: 2930523 Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Ft Lauderdale Device: iPad	Well, that doesn't seem like a very fair way to play, does it. So, since the gloves are coming off.... Plan B: The tech savvy kids in Comp Sci will begin to format pbooks for e-reading, and then sell the pirated books for a fraction of the cost to the art and lit majors.

08-26-2008, 01:01 PM	#19
Taylor514ce Actively passive. Posts: 2,042 Karma: 478376 Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: US Device: Sony PRS-505/LC	Meanwhile, I dress exactly like the dude in the picture. Hat and all. Except no hair. Uncanny.

08-26-2008, 01:26 PM	#21
nekokami fruminous edugeek Posts: 6,745 Karma: 551260 Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Northeast US Device: iPad, eBw 1150	Of the 6 books required for my graduate classes this semester, one was available to read online for free or download the PDF for a reduced price compared to the paper version, and one was available in Kindle format (but I don't have a Kindle, so I couldn't buy it, even though I could have arranged to read it subsequently). The rest only exist as dead-tree versions. One of my professors has not made the booklist available prior to the start of the semester, insisting that we go to the local college bookstore to find out what is needed. The bookstore doesn't let you check the aisles, but fetches the books for you. I paid $153.90, walked back to my office, and discovered that one was the wrong edition (the bookstore had 3d edition, the professor has specified second edition), two were provided in hardcover when paperback versions were available, and all were significantly higher-priced than I could find online, even taking shipping into account. I've re-ordered the books online (new cost: $102.81) and I'm returning the books I bought tonight. That $50 covers the cost of my lunches for about two months, plus some. But many faculty at this university seem to think that they have to "support" the local textbook store (not owned by the university) and are highly resistant to giving out their textbook lists in advance of classes, despite numerous formal requests by the student senate. Somehow, I don't think those professors would be interested in helping students get ebook versions instead, either.

08-26-2008, 03:07 PM	#22
Daithi Publishers are evil! Posts: 2,418 Karma: 36205264 Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Rhode Island Device: Various Kindles	I have to say that my experience is similar to Nekokami. It also seems to me that the textbook publishers are continually publishing new versions of textbooks. They are not doing this because a course has changed, but only to insure that students will have to buy the new textbook and not a used copy. Why on earth do we need an 11th edition of first year calculus? Why does it cost $175? Why do the professors and universities support the practices of the textbook publishers? On one hand e-books would be great for students, but I could see textbook publishers loving them as well. For one thing it would elliminate used copies of textbooks, and the publishers would no longer have to go through the expense of revising their editions every three years or so. Personally, I'd like to see more open-textbook projects, and this could really flourish in an e-book environment.

08-26-2008, 04:29 PM	#23
jamesdmanley Groupie Posts: 156 Karma: 817 Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: houston Device: prs-500	if this were letter sized, search able, and you could make notes with a stylus that would be awesome. problem is, it would probably cost $500-1000 and it would be a decade before all text books are available digitally. unfortunately, im not going to pay that much, or wait that long. maybe for grad school ... shoot, ill probably be done with that too buy then. sigh. oh well

08-26-2008, 04:42 PM	#25
JSWolf Resident Curmudgeon Posts: 73,970 Karma: 128903378 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Roslindale, Massachusetts Device: Kobo Libra 2, Kobo Aura H2O, PRS-650, PRS-T1, nook STR, PW3	There are no screens in letter size. The biggest we will have will be 9.7 and that's not until next year sometime once it is figured out how to make then stable enough so they don't break. Until then, the largest screen we have that's stable is on the iLiad. So while the rumers say October, don't beive it even if it is true about new models with larger screens. So if you are waiting for a Kindle with a large screen vs getting one now, good luck. You won't get one this year. In fact, it's unknown when the 9.7" screens will be available. All we have to go on is a guess of next year sometime. So if there is a new Kindle out this year, it'll still have a 6" screen.

08-26-2008, 05:35 PM	#28
nekokami fruminous edugeek Posts: 6,745 Karma: 551260 Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Northeast US Device: iPad, eBw 1150	I'd like to see more ability to pick and choose from textbooks, to be honest. Last semester a professor I took a class with had us buy over $100 worth of books, but we only read portions of many of them. It would have been nice to only have to purchase those portions. And I think it could avoid a lot of faculty thinking they need to create a completely new textbook in a field that hasn't changed that much (even some technical fields), if they could select the most appropriate chapters from several existing textbooks.

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