Register Guidelines E-Books Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   MobileRead Forums > E-Book Readers > Kobo Reader

Notices

View Poll Results: Does the kobo forma light flicker cause you eye strain?
yes 9 14.06%
no 55 85.94%
Voters: 64. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 01-14-2020, 07:30 PM   #106
John F
Grand Sorcerer
John F ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.John F ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.John F ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.John F ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.John F ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.John F ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.John F ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.John F ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.John F ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.John F ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.John F ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 7,092
Karma: 63038455
Join Date: Feb 2009
Device: Kobo Glo HD
Quote:
Originally Posted by JSWolf View Post
If you replied yes in the poll, please explain what it is you are seeing or what is happening. Please be as specific as possible. Thanks.
What about the no votes?
John F is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2020, 09:03 PM   #107
meeera
Grand Sorcerer
meeera ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.meeera ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.meeera ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.meeera ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.meeera ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.meeera ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.meeera ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.meeera ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.meeera ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.meeera ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.meeera ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
meeera's Avatar
 
Posts: 5,647
Karma: 66099782
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Australia
Device: Kobo Libra 2, iPadMini4, iPad4, MBP; support other Kobo/Kindles
Quote:
Originally Posted by koboyedi View Post
Wow, this discussion is drifting towards flat-earther territory,
I agree, though perhaps not quite in the same way that you mean this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by koboyedi View Post
It's classical physics guys!
It's the physics-biology interface. Which is complicated, but testable. "BUT IT'S OBVIOUS!!" is not science.

Quote:
Originally Posted by koboyedi View Post
There is not a shred of doubt PWM has an effect on people and yes (!), you don't get to have an opinion on that, since it's not up for debate. The only question is to what extent people are affected.
Absolutely no one has disputed the fact that low frequency PWM can have a biological effect on people. What is in debate is whether PWM at 1000 Hz can have a biological effect on people. So far, no evidence has been presented of this. Again, feel free to present some, if you can find it.

I have no doubt that knowledge of its existence can have a psychological effect, and there is very good evidence for the nocebo effect as a phenomenon. It would take some good science to winkle that effect out, and I've seen none.

Last edited by meeera; 01-14-2020 at 09:05 PM.
meeera is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2020, 11:40 PM   #108
DNSB
Bibliophagist
DNSB ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DNSB ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DNSB ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DNSB ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DNSB ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DNSB ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DNSB ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DNSB ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DNSB ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DNSB ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DNSB ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
DNSB's Avatar
 
Posts: 34,539
Karma: 144552660
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Vancouver
Device: Kobo Sage, Forma, Clara HD, Lenovo M8 FHD, Paperwhite 4, Tolino epos
Quote:
Originally Posted by koboyedi View Post
Wow, this discussion is drifting towards flat-earther territory, so this has to be said:

It's classical physics guys! There is not a shred of doubt PWM has an effect on people and yes (!), you don't get to have an opinion on that, since it's not up for debate. The only question is to what extent people are affected.
Could you point out where someone has said that PWM does not have an effect on some people?

What appears to being said is that the Forma uses 1KHz PWM. So far I haven't seen a study that shows any effect from PWM at that rate -- the highest rate I saw in a study was one that showed a small percentage of the participants could notice artifacts from PWM at 400Hz in saccade (rapid eye movements). One of the tests involved a single dot on the screen which seemed designed to maximize the ability to detect any effects.

Looking at quite few of the original complaints, they seemed to involve Samsung AMOLED phone screens. The majority of those early screens used PWM rates below 100Hz. For example, the Samsung A10 which uses a 77Hz PWM rate.

Not taking the PWM rate into account is similar to arguing that since I can see flicker in a 10fps video, I should be able to see flicker in a 200fps video. After all, they both have flicker.

Quote:
Originally Posted by koboyedi View Post
Next to this, most people who experience issues are not even aware their problems could be caused by something they don't visibly notice, hence the true number of affected readers is 'very likely' much higher than any forum poll could suggest.

To sum it up, there is no question if there is a problem, only how serious it is.
It's hard to find a proper double blind study. The only one I could locate that came even close indicated that while ~10% of people do notice effects from sub-100Hz PWM, that a similar percentage (~8.6%) complained about eye strain and headaches from a DC dimmed display. Google Scholar really needs to improve their search algorithms.
DNSB is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2020, 05:28 AM   #109
JSWolf
Resident Curmudgeon
JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
JSWolf's Avatar
 
Posts: 73,659
Karma: 127838196
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Roslindale, Massachusetts
Device: Kobo Libra 2, Kobo Aura H2O, PRS-650, PRS-T1, nook STR, PW3
Quote:
Originally Posted by John F View Post
What about the no votes?
Why would someone who is not seeing flicker or having eyestrain be asked to explain that? They see no flicker and they have no eyestrain.That's the explanation.
JSWolf is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2020, 05:46 AM   #110
meeera
Grand Sorcerer
meeera ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.meeera ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.meeera ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.meeera ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.meeera ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.meeera ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.meeera ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.meeera ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.meeera ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.meeera ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.meeera ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
meeera's Avatar
 
Posts: 5,647
Karma: 66099782
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Australia
Device: Kobo Libra 2, iPadMini4, iPad4, MBP; support other Kobo/Kindles
Quote:
Originally Posted by JSWolf View Post
Why would someone who is not seeing flicker or having eyestrain be asked to explain that? They see no flicker and they have no eyestrain.That's the explanation.
Let's be very clear: no human person is seeing flicker on their Formas.
meeera is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2020, 07:43 AM   #111
John F
Grand Sorcerer
John F ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.John F ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.John F ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.John F ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.John F ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.John F ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.John F ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.John F ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.John F ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.John F ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.John F ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 7,092
Karma: 63038455
Join Date: Feb 2009
Device: Kobo Glo HD
Quote:
Originally Posted by JSWolf View Post
Why would someone who is not seeing flicker or having eyestrain be asked to explain that? They see no flicker and they have no eyestrain.That's the explanation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JSWolf View Post
If you replied yes in the poll, please explain what it is you are seeing or what is happening. Please be as specific as possible. Thanks.
I don't think that it follows that if someone voted yes, that they can "see" the flicker; they may not "see" the flicker, believe it is causing eyestrain, and voted yes. Other things could be causing the eyestrain, as others have mentioned.

And vice versa... People may have voted no, still have eye strain, and believe that the eyestrain is not caused by the flickering.

I interpret the poll as taking the flicker as a given (whether you can see it or not).
John F is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
screen flickering and pixelated ejseeks Kobo Reader 4 01-10-2017 07:52 PM
KT Screen Flickering Fahd Kindle Developer's Corner 11 05-29-2013 09:08 AM
Screen flickering/blinking islandmixed Amazon Kindle 2 12-22-2012 09:28 PM
Flickering Screen? luqmaninbmore Nook Color & Nook Tablet 2 01-11-2011 12:47 PM
Screen flickering and color blotches? ozero Nook Color & Nook Tablet 12 12-06-2010 03:19 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:55 PM.


MobileRead.com is a privately owned, operated and funded community.