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Old 12-07-2017, 08:59 PM   #61
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High vs low for me generally has more to to with the amount of magic that people run into in their everyday lives. LOTR is pretty low (a few swords and rings that are mostly legends, a couple wizards whose magic seems to consist of making good fireworks), Harry Potter very high (everyone in the wizarding community knows and can generally use it).

Epic can be either high or low but would have world changing events either occurring or trying to be prevented.
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Old 12-07-2017, 09:02 PM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DiapDealer View Post
Now see, everything I've heard would put Game of Thrones squarely in the Low Fantasy camp.
I would also put GoT in the low fantasy area at least by my definition - at least the first couple books. As I understand it there is more magic in later books, possibly related to dragons, but I don't intend to continue the series.
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Old 12-07-2017, 11:05 PM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DiapDealer View Post
Now see, everything I've heard would put Game of Thrones squarely in the Low Fantasy camp.

I guess I've always been hung up on the terms themselves. Why "High," or why "Low"? Uptown/downtown? High Falutin? Low Born/High Born? Low Country Boil? High Cockalorum?

What about mega-magic set in the real world, or no magic in set in a fictitious world? What about elves and dwarves set in our "real" world? Epic sword & sorcery with elves, dwarves and gnomes with the fate of the real world at stake? Is there Medium/Middle Fantasy?
Having not read GOT, it's hard for me to comment, but I've watched the first few seasons (and promptly got tired of it, so stopped), but there's no Hero's Journey. Thus, not High Fantasy.

Honestly, not that invested in the definitions, so I don't know if it would be "low" or whatever.

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Old 12-08-2017, 12:40 AM   #64
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Originally Posted by JSWolf View Post
I'm going to suggest the following books by Stephen R. Donaldson.

Thomas Covenant
1. Lord Foul's Bane
2. The Illearth War
3. The Power That Preserves

Second Chronicles of Thomas Covenant
1. The Wounded Land
2. The One Tree
3. White Gold Wielder

Last Chronicles of Thomas Covenant
1. The Runes of the Earth
2. Fatal Revenant
3. Against All Things Ending
4. The Last Dark
Thanks, I didn't know there WAS a Last Chronicles. Going on my TBR list now.
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Old 12-08-2017, 06:01 AM   #65
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Originally Posted by ZodWallop View Post
It's funny. There was another thread looking for fantasy that would expand their literary horizons then there's this one looking for lots of action. Though they don't have to be, those feel mutually exclusive to me.

For better or worse, 'Lots of action' translated in my mind to schlocky fun. 'Expanding literary horizons' meant mid-to-highbrow reading.

Perhaps this person could explore the revised Chung Kuo Series, by David Wingrove.

(I really dislike those new covers. They're so vanilla; but that's another thread.)
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Old 12-08-2017, 10:14 AM   #66
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Here you go:

Roger Taylor - The Call of the Sword [The Chronicles of Hawklan, Book 1]

Not many people know about this series, but it's great.

https://www.amazon.com/Call-Sword-Ch...+taylor+kindle

and the series listing:

https://www.amazon.com/Roger-Taylor/..._cont_ebooks_1
Interesting, thanks for the pointer. I've never heard of the series.
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Old 12-08-2017, 10:44 AM   #67
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Originally Posted by pwalker8 View Post
Interesting, thanks for the pointer. I've never heard of the series.

You're welcome.

Yeah, I read the first two (?) back when they first came out and remember enjoying them very much.

CLARIFICATION: I haven't yet read the entire series.
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Old 12-08-2017, 10:49 AM   #68
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Originally Posted by DiapDealer View Post
Now see, everything I've heard would put Game of Thrones squarely in the Low Fantasy camp.

I guess I've always been hung up on the terms themselves. Why "High," or why "Low"? Uptown/downtown? High Falutin? Low Born/High Born? Low Country Boil? High Cockalorum?

What about mega-magic set in the real world, or no magic in set in a fictitious world? What about elves and dwarves set in our "real" world? Epic sword & sorcery with elves, dwarves and gnomes with the fate of the real world at stake? Is there Medium/Middle Fantasy?
I think that the High Fantasy verses Low Fantasy was more about the literary world back in the 60's and 70's than anything else. Think of it as more literature verses pulp or the LOTR verses Conan camps. Back then, SF&F was looked down on by the literary types. I suspect a lot of the High Fantasy has to have (fill in the blank) tended to be attempts to differentiate "acceptable" fantasy.

High Fantasy followed the classic story line of the hero quest which can be found in many of the old epic stories. Many of the early high fantasy writers tended to be well educated Englishmen who wrote on the side (Eddison, Morris and Tolkien) and thus presumably worthy of being considered literature. The low fantasy authors tended to be every day authors writing pulp to make a living, people like Howard, Fritz Leiber and Moorcock.

I think that for the most part we have moved past that issue now. Many books blend the two quite a bit. It's been a long time since I've read arguments about what camp a specific author or book belongs to.
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Old 12-08-2017, 10:50 AM   #69
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Originally Posted by Dr. Drib View Post
You're welcome.

Yeah, I read the first two (?) back when they first came out and remember enjoying them very much.

CLARIFICATION: I haven't yet read the entire series.
I picked up the first one. I'm always on the look out for new authors.
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Old 12-08-2017, 10:52 AM   #70
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When I think of High Fantasy, the one thing that immediately comes to mind is the Ballantine Adult Fantasy Series, edited by Lin Carter, although I would not now classify them all in that category.

This is where I encountered - for the first time - many classic Fantasy authors.
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Old 12-08-2017, 11:08 AM   #71
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Originally Posted by pwalker8 View Post
It's been a long time since I've read arguments about what camp a specific author or book belongs to.
Read, or seen/heard? If the latter, I'll assume that it's because you just don't get out much any more. The fans I run into still love to beat each other soundly about the head and shoulders over sub-classification squabbles.
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Old 12-08-2017, 12:39 PM   #72
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almost anything by Brandon Sanderson....start with Mistborn: The Final Empire.

Steven Erikson's Malazan: Book of the Fallen. 10 long books, starting with Gardens of the Moon. They are about as epic as you can get.
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Old 12-08-2017, 12:45 PM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DiapDealer View Post
Read, or seen/heard? If the latter, I'll assume that it's because you just don't get out much any more. The fans I run into still love to beat each other soundly about the head and shoulders over sub-classification squabbles.
We're arguing? Who knew? I thought we were just chatting, in the context of the OP's question.

Strewth, I don't care enough to argue.

I'd argue, however, (ha, gotcha), that Dune, if the "space travel" were accomplished by any other means than spaceships, falls into the category of fantasy, rather than Sci-Fi. Sure, the KH takes a serum/potion (magic!!!) and then transcends time/space/yadda, but...what's more magical than that? He most certainly has the traditional Hero's Journey. Even the Guild Navigators are magic, rather than scientific.

But, were Frank alive, I know he'd object vociferously. (As did the late great Ann McCaffrey, when people called Pern, et al, S-Fantasy rather than Science Fiction.)

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Old 12-08-2017, 01:09 PM   #74
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We're arguing? Who knew? I thought we were just chatting, in the context of the OP's question.

Strewth, I don't care enough to argue.
No, no. Not us. I was merely commenting on--what I assume--was pwalker8's implication that folks don't really argue about this sort of thing any more. I hear fans nit-picking about what books/authors fit into the various sub-classifications all the time. Arguing about it is a religion for many.

Like you, I don't care enough to argue about what specific books should be considered High Low Epic Urban, etc... I'm more curious about what the labels themselves imply than which books get which labels.

I still don't see any real consistency in how the labels are defined/applied from fan to fan, though. I figure a fantasy book is just saddled with whichever particular sub-label is first applied to it. Whether it be by the author, the publisher or reviewer. *shrug*
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Old 12-08-2017, 01:27 PM   #75
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No, no. Not us. I was merely commenting on--what I assume--was pwalker8's implication that folks don't really argue about this sort of thing any more. I hear fans nit-picking about what books/authors fit into the various sub-classifications all the time. Arguing about it is a religion for many.

Like you, I don't care enough to argue about what specific books should be considered High Low Epic Urban, etc... I'm more curious about what the labels themselves imply than which books get which labels.

I still don't see any real consistency in how the labels are defined/applied from fan to fan, though. I figure a fantasy book is just saddled with whichever particular sub-label is first applied to it. Whether it be by the author, the publisher or reviewer. *shrug*

Honestly, most of them seem to just decide that X is HF, or not. It's as if some friend said, "hey, you'll love this HF book," and thus, it is so anointed for eternity. I mean, look at this thread. Most of what's been said as HF, isn't. As in "world-changing events" or the "amount" of magic or this/that. {shrug}. Therefore, it's obvious that the labels aren't working.

Perhaps, only librarians or cataloguers care.

I'll say this, though--I've seen near fights-to-the-death over the labeling of some books, and we all know fans of this or that series/book/character/show/game (you name it) that will go to their grave fighting over whether this happened (Han Shot First!), or not, or this character is really dead, or not and so on.

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