CSS: Spans vs Font Families

[SigilBear]

Originally Posted by Hitch

Doits:

If memory serves, that file isn't needed any longer, BUT, if the OP is viewing this with a first-gen iPad, he might still have issues without it.

FWIW.

Hitch

That would be helpful, too.

Although I'm now wrestling with a few issues, publishing my first epub to both Kindle and iBooks was surprisingly easy in general. If I remember correctly, I didn't even delete the cover page when publishing to Kindle.

After publishing to iBooks, I got an e-mail telling me I need to add the author to my metadata. (I thought that was covered by "creator.") But I couldn't figure out how to do it, and they never replied when I asked them for further instructions.

So they both appear to be somewhat lax.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by SigilBear

In other words, it would then indeed be OK to use this in my style sheets:

.Class { font-family: sans-serif; }

That would certainly make life easier. My first epub doesn't use any special fonts, though my second one will.

Thanks.

Yes, that would work better then embedding a sans-serif font. But if you plan to put the book up on Amazon, you need to test on a Kindle to see if the sans-serif shows up without having to select Publisher Font.

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

Yes, that would work better then embedding a sans-serif font. But if you plan to put the book up on Amazon, you need to test on a Kindle to see if the sans-serif shows up without having to select Publisher Font.

Wolfie:

That's solely for the KF8 eInks: PPW, Voyage, Oasis. None of the others have that issue, just FYI.

To the OP: whatever you do, do NOT put a font on the body HTML tag. Amazon won't like it, and they'll punish you. Really.

Hitch

[SigilBear]

Originally Posted by Hitch

To the OP: whatever you do, do NOT put a font on the body HTML tag. Amazon won't like it, and they'll punish you. Really.

Wow, I didn't know that.

I went back and checked and found this in my style sheet:

body { font-family: Georgia; }

I'm getting ready to submit an update, so I'll change it to...

body { font-family: serif; }

Or should I not even put that?

P.S. How do they "punish" you? They never sent me any warnings or error messages.

[BetterRed]

Originally Posted by SigilBear

P.S. How do they "punish" you? They never sent me any warnings or error messages.

They send a dead cat laden drone

[SigilBear]

Originally Posted by BetterRed

They send a dead cat laden drone

LOL

Actually, I would imagine the default font for Kindle and iBooks both has to be a serif font, so I guess my next-to-last question is moot.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by SigilBear

Wow, I didn't know that.

I went back and checked and found this in my style sheet:

body { font-family: Georgia; }

I'm getting ready to submit an update, so I'll change it to...

body { font-family: serif; }

Or should I not even put that?

You should not put font-family: serif;. All that ends up doing is sometimes causing a problem when trying to change the font.

Another thing to leave out unless you absolutely need it is line-height.

And finally, set the margins for 0. Let the person reading change the margins. Many programs/apps and newer Readers support changing the margins.

[GrannyGrump]

As JSWolf and others point out, better not to set body font at all.

You can, however, set font-family for *small* selections, when you want a distinctive appearance. Such as "serif" for a chapter heading, or "monospace" for a telegram, etc.
(and I know Jon will think of a reason to dispute this....)

[SigilBear]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

And finally, set the margins for 0. Let the person reading change the margins. Many programs/apps and newer Readers support changing the margins.

Margins of WHAT?

On a web page, everything is generally built on div's, so I could style a page margin like this:

div.Page { margin: 0; }

But how would I do that in an epub, like this?:

body { margin: 0; }

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by SigilBear

Margins of WHAT?

On a web page, everything is generally built on div's, so I could style a page margin like this:

div.Page { margin: 0; }

But how would I do that in an epub, like this?:

body { margin: 0; }

The last website I helped build, I did not use <div> where <p> and classes would do.

As for margins, in body, yes, use margins of 0. But do not use margin shorthand. Some older devices such as nook do not like them. Use the full margins.

body {
widows: 1;
orphans: 1;
margin-top: 0;
margin-bottom: 0;
margin-left: 0;
margin-right: 0;
text-align: justify;
}

That sets widows and orphans to 1. That means the end of the page stays the same (and to me, it looks better). Sets the margins to 0 and the text is justified.

[SigilBear]

Alright, I have a much better handle on epub CSS now. Thanks.

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by SigilBear

Wow, I didn't know that.

<snippage>
P.S. How do they "punish" you? They never sent me any warnings or error messages.

I knew if I said this--in an attempt to be somewhat humorous but accurate--somebody would make hay with it (cough, cough, wheeze, Red, cough...)

Well, because a) suddenly, not only will your font not work, but if you embeddded it, it will be stripped from the file, and b) see a) and you might get the ubiquitous Kindle Quality Notice, AND, c) in addition to that, the Dreaded on-sales-page customer warning, about BAD or POOR formatting.

That part? Not bloody humorous, so you know. Not a bit.

The FG specifically say, no forced fonts, and the way that Amazon means that is that, NO fonts on the html body tag. If you do that, you stand a very good chance of having the fonts literally ripped out of the ePUB/MOBI/Zipped HTML/etc., package. I've seen it not only remove the fonts, but ALTER the CSS in the book, removing any mention of said fonts.

The Warning? Trust me when I tell you, they are getting mighty goddamned liberal with it.

I have a still (also) trade-pubbed client, published a scholarly bio book on a Golden Age Hollywood Celebrity. The client is a known author, biographer of such folks, etc. The book's been up on Amazon in Kindle format since 2011. No worries, and it sells a nice moderate number, as would be expected given it's not about a bloody Kardashian. The book is a backlist book--originally published by Knopf in H/C.

In 2011, we received a scan and OCR of the original printed work, and made the book. (n.b.: everybody please remember, we just make the ebooks, we're not an editing service, at all.)

He recently gets a Nastygram from Amazon (aka, a Kindle Quality Notice). Somebody found THIRTEEN (13) WHOLE scan/text errors, right? Our of 595 original print pages. 595. Not 20, or even "only" 100 printed pages, nearly 600 pages. So Amazon sent the Kindle Quality Notice. Okay, so, that's not so bad. But wait, there's MORE!

They also put a Quality Issues Reported WARNING, up on the book's sales page. (And yes, my client tells me that the sales volume has dropped off, since same appeared. Not a total standstill, but still...).

I've attached a screenshot of the actual notice, from his Amazon page. Now, I've seen them a LOT worse, mind you, about formatting errors, etc., around Amazon, but still. Warn off prospective buyers? For 13 whole typos, in 600 pages, honestly, that seems pretty (*&^%$#@ draconian. I'd bet real money that the Knopf version had 13 damn typos in it, which is a pretty freaking LOW error rate. (Word count, 233K words. Error count, 13. Error rate: .005579. For the love of mike...)

Offered FWIW, y'all can feel free to ignore me if you want. Don't say you haven't been warned.


Hitch

[JSWolf]

Hitch, I don't ignore you. I find your advice pretty darn useful.

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

Hitch, I don't ignore you. I find your advice pretty darn useful.

Wolfie:

My sweet, I didn't actually mean you. :-) You know that; you're my fave Resident Curmudgeon, warts and all.


Hitch

[SigilBear]

Originally Posted by Hitch

He recently gets a Nastygram from Amazon (aka, a Kindle Quality Notice). Somebody found THIRTEEN (13) WHOLE scan/text errors, right? Our of 595 original print pages. 595. Not 20, or even "only" 100 printed pages, nearly 600 pages. So Amazon sent the Kindle Quality Notice. Okay, so, that's not so bad. But wait, there's MORE!

Wow, I wonder if the fact that Amazon never sent me any warnings means I did a really good job on my first book or it was so bad they said "Why bother?"

Actually, I think I did a pretty good job, but it was a pretty big project and there must some kind of errors in it. I still pick up little typos here and there.