The Virtue of High Priced Books

[avantman42]

Originally Posted by HansTWN

A lot of people who buy hardbacks buy them because hardbacks look good on the book shelves. And some buy them to get the absolute first shot at reading a popular new book. There is a clear degradation in quality from hardback to paperback to mass market paperback. And mass market paperbacks don't appear until a year or so after the hardback. An ebook always stays the same.

I've honestly never noticed a difference in ease of reading, which is all that mattered to me, which is why I didn't care whether I was reading the hardback, trade paperback or mass market paperback. Nowadays, I do see a difference in ease of reading between paper books and my Kindle. I find my Kindle much more convenient, and so I'm unlikely to read a paper book.

Andrew H said:

Originally Posted by Andrew H.

There's no point in trying to compete with the used market.

He may be right, but right now, I'm not convinced. There's no point trying to compete when the book is released, but then, the used market for a given book doesn't appear until some time after release. Surely at that point, it makes sense to compete with that market?

[Frida Fantastic]

Yeah, I have an explicit $10 or less ebook selection policy for my book review blog. I could make exceptions but 99% of the time I don't look at ebooks priced over $10. An author emailed me and asked me about it because he was releasing an ebook at the same time as his hardcover and had an ebook price at around $14. I explained my policy to him (because I don't know a lot of people who'd purchase an indie science fiction ebook over $10). I hope he wasn't too miffed and I hope he found an interested reviewer.

I might have missed reviewing the greatest book ever written, but there's plenty of great books in the $10 and less price point. I have enough interesting fiction to read already. I'm personally only willing to pay more than $10 if I'm getting a book that I highly anticipated by an author I'm a big fan of. If it's by an unknown (to me) indie author, then that price is just too steep.

[rhadin]

Originally Posted by Elfwreck

Those prices are already affecting sales, because a lot of ebook buyers are looking at the Agency 6, and saying, hmm, $13 for a single ebook, or $13 for four non-DRM'd Smashwords ebooks... even if three of them turn out to be a waste of time, I haven't lost any money. If two of them are good, I'm ahead; if I've gotten lucky and all four are good, I'm way ahead.

This is almost the problem authors and publishers are facing in a nutshell. I say almost because Elfwreck assumes the ebooker will spend $13 for 4 Smashwords titles. And that's the rub --

In the beginning, when I received my Sony 505 as a gift 3.5 years ago, I bought ebooks at Fictionwise, at the Sony store, and other ebooksellers. But that has all changed. I did upgrade my device to a Sony 950 and gave my wife the 505, but whereas I spent $300 on the new 950, I have been steadily spending less on buying ebooks.

I still "buy" ebooks but the cost for 90% or more of them is $0.00. Just look at all the posts for free ebooks that are available from Amazon, B&N, Sony, etc. that appear here on MR. I'm not talking about the "classics" that MR members edit and proofread and then post to the MR library; I'm talking about new ebooks that authors and publishers are offering for free. There are so many of them available, that it would be impossible for me to read even half of them before I die. There simply isn't enough time available.

Just consider how many ebooks are being made available for free at Smashwords alone. There are thousands.

My point is this: I look at the Agency 6 pricing, I look at author pricing at Smashwords (I'm flabbergasted at how many unknown authors are setting prices at $5.99 and up at Smashwords and of those, how many, if you read the sample, are clearly unedited ramblings rather than coherent stories), and I say to myself, "Why spend $14.99 on an Agency 6 title, or even $9.99, or why spend $3.99 on a Smashwords title, when I have hundreds of free ebooks to choose among?"

How does an author combat that price point? How do the Agency 6 combat it?

I do pay and am willing to pay a good price for ebooks from authors who are must reads for me. For example, now that I have tasted Vicki Tyley's mysteries and Shayne Parkinson's historical fiction, I will gladly pay a reasonable price for their next ebook. But I got to that point because of the free ebooks.

This is a conundrum for authors and publishers.

[jhempel24]

Originally Posted by Giggleton

Why? What gives anyone the right to tell anyone else what they can think/read? If I want to read a book I will, I may or may not send monies to the author.

Because they created the content. Bad business decision? Maybe....but you are the consumer not the creator or owner of the work.

The creator/owner of the work has every right to market to whomever they wish.

If you wish to write a book and sell it for .50 then by all means, go right ahead. If you wish to write a book and sell it for $25.00 then by all means, go right ahead.

I just spent $40 after shipping on a Hardback copy of The Starter by Scott Sigler, $35 for the book, $5 for the shipping.
I don't do this often, almost never, but I enjoy his work, and his personal interaction between him and his fans (it's all the time by the way, every day), means more to me than the price, he makes us the readers fell like we MATTER.

[mr ploppy]

Originally Posted by leebase

But IF he was picked up by a publisher who would advance him enough money that he could quit his job. THEN his readers would have access to his books that wouldn't even exist if he had to support himself with a regular job and could only write occasionally.

Last I heard the average publisher advance was $5,000, nowhere near enough to quit your job, and you would still need to have a finished book to get that. Even if you wanted to give 90% of your income to a publisher you would be better off testing the market on Amazon first. Publishers only care about what they think they can sell, so if they can see something that already has a few sales and/or positive feedback they would be more lkely to look at that than some random manuscript someone sent them last year.

[mr ploppy]

Originally Posted by Andrew H.

There's no point in trying to compete with the used market.

The used book market is massive compared with the new book market. Anyone who doesn't want a slice of that is just plain silly. Ebooks priced at used paperback levels are the best sellers on Amazon for a reason.

[leebase]

Originally Posted by Elfwreck

If, of course, the book exists in print. If the book is only released as an ebook, Billy just has to hope his local library has an ebook department, decides to buy it, and in some cases, if Billy's one of the first 26 people to check it out.

Nope. It's NICE that we've had libraries and used books for all these centuries, but they are hardly required. It is those who actually contribute financially to the creation of content that enable the creation of content. Billy is not served in ANY way by harming or devaluing the creation of books.

I can't afford Mercedez Benz's, but it's a good thing that SOME folks can. If you lowered the prices of luxury cars to the point I could and would choose to buy them you'd eliminate all reason that such things would be created in the first place.

It is perfectly fine that some people can't afford everything that exists.

And the reality is we are nowhere close to the time when actual books and used books and libraries have ceased to exist.

Originally Posted by Elfwreck

The lack of legit loaning/resale of ebooks is working toward re-establishing access to books as something for the upper classes, or at least removing access from the most impoverished classes of people. The first sacrifice in the ebook-vs-paper publishing wars will be mmpb's--and suddenly, Billy will have a lot fewer chances to find a copy at a yard sale for fifty cents.

We are nowhere close to that dystopian scenario. But let's say we were. We'd be in no different a situation than everyone not being able to afford Mercedez Benz's or Tiffany lamps. One is not harmed by something existing one cannot afford. On the contrary, the financial viability of any product is essential to it's existence.

Originally Posted by Elfwreck

I don't mind waiting for lower-priced secondhand books, but I'm baffled that authors & publishers seem to think this is a *good* thing for them. They don't get royalties on those sales. Why not release $5 ebooks instead of telling me to read something they don't get paid for?

I'm sure publishers and authors would be quite pleased if they COULD get remunerated when anyone benefits from their work. Used books were something that couldn't be worked around, they had to be accepted. Libraries are the balancing good to the copyright laws. By the time everything is ebooks, they will work out the balancing good.

Society will not benefit by making information free. Patents and copywright laws are the foundation of Western civilizations success and prosperity. In the digital age there HAS to be Intellectual Property that can be enforced or we will severely halt the march of progress. No one will spend the time and effort to create works that cannot be protected.

Lee

[Giggleton]

Originally Posted by jhempel24

Because they created the content. Bad business decision? Maybe....but you are the consumer not the creator or owner of the work.

The creator/owner of the work has every right to market to whomever they wish.

This is debatable, and has been debated for thousands of years, creation does not occur in a vacuum. Everything is derivative of everything else, you might disregard this with a, "That's ridiculous" But it doesn't change the fact that every particle in the universe is interconnected with every other particle, at least as far as we can see. We could talk hypothetically of a point where these interconnections vanish and everything exists in its own infinite vacuum, but that would be ridiculous.

[leebase]

Originally Posted by GreenMonkey

The price on backlist ebooks should be more in line with the used market.

No one would have the incentive to create ebooks of backlist works if they could only sell them for $.25 each. By all means, go ahead and buy that used paperback book at the garage sale for $.25. No one need buy the ebook unless they DESIRE to at the price sufficient to encourage it's creation.

Originally Posted by GreenMonkey

Only huge ebook fans buy a backlist ebook for $8 that they can't share when they could get a paperback for $2 at the local used book store - or a penny + $2.99 shipping from Amazon marketplace. Or, even cheaper - torrent for free a copy that you can share across devices and accounts.

Exactly. So why worry? If you want the book in ebook form then pay the $8. If you don't want to pay that much, then buy the used paperback. It's your choice. The market for a long out book is very small. So a publisher has to make it's money from a relatively small group in order for it to be worth it to them to produce the ebook. And, of course, the publisher has to compete with the used books like you said.

There's nothing to worry about. The person who doesn't want to pay $8 doesn't have to, they can buy the used book. The person who cares enough about the convenience of digital can buy a legitimate copy at a price that makes it worth it to the publisher to create. Everyone wins.

Originally Posted by GreenMonkey

You think that a dropping price over time strategy would come into play for ebooks, in an effort to make money on those that would simply buy used. Somehow they seem to expect that some sort of magic inherent in ebooks will make people pay 4x what it costs to buy a used paperback.

Yep. That's perfectly true and it's why no one need fret. There is only a small window of opportunity for publishers to price ebooks on a relatively even level with the new release hard back. After that time they will then be competing with used copies of the hard back. And then the paper back, and then the used paperback.

If you don't want to pay the ebook price, then buy a used paper copy.

Lee

[leebase]

Originally Posted by Giggleton

Why? What gives anyone the right to tell anyone else what they can think/read? If I want to read a book I will, I may or may not send monies to the author.

That some folks are thieves is something content producers have always had to deal with. They will cater to those who pay them and not give a flying fig about those who choose to steal. Or, occasionally, make an example of such folks.

Originally Posted by Giggleton

I must admit that I feel like I am overpaying for ebooks sometimes, I just close my eyes and click the button

But I think it's more of a general thing about digital content and its intangible nature.

Your confusion is noted. You've had plenty of opportunity to see the reason and are simply unwilling. Try using some of your reading time for history. Copyright and patent law are the innovations that led to western civilization's prosperity.

Lee

[leebase]

Originally Posted by avantman42

If that's true, then why didn't that happen with paper books? Why didn't everyone wait for the mass market paper back? I don't think I've ever bought a new hardback (I do have some that I bought second hand), but I have bought trade paper backs when I wanted the book badly enough that I didn't want to wait for the mass market paper back.

It DID happen with paper books. No one releases the paper back version at the same time as the hard back. Plenty of folks are like you and me and rarely bought new release hard backs. But MILLIONS of folks DID buy the hard backs. But there is a relatively small time window when folks don't have other options. Before too long there are used hard backs. Then come the trade paper backs, the more expensive version. Then finally the mass market paper back.

At no point has the book industry priced the new books at the same price as used. Never have, never will.

With ebooks, there is no concept of "used". Each copy of an ebook is as good as the last. There will be no such thing as used ebooks. Nor will ebooks ever be priced to compete with someone's garage sale of used paperbacks.

Lee

[leebase]

Originally Posted by Elfwreck

At the moment, no novel is worth $9 to me. Some are worth $5. They seem to think that's an insulting offer. Do they want their books respected, or do they want them sold?

I think you had it right earlier in your post. Your price is simply too low for them to care about having you as a customer. And that's ok with you too as you have plenty of options for your time and money.

Lee

[jhempel24]

Originally Posted by Giggleton

This is debatable, and has been debated for thousands of years, creation does not occur in a vacuum. Everything is derivative of everything else, you might disregard this with a, "That's ridiculous" But it doesn't change the fact that every particle in the universe is interconnected with every other particle, at least as far as we can see. We could talk hypothetically of a point where these interconnections vanish and everything exists in its own infinite vacuum, but that would be ridiculous.

Tohen look at it this way
You are paying for their time. Their time away from the family, or their time away from their own entertainment simply because they want to create something that you might enjoy. So you aren't paying for their product, or their ideas or creation, but the time lost in their lives.

[avantman42]

Originally Posted by leebase

It DID happen with paper books. No one releases the paper back version at the same time as the hard back. Plenty of folks are like you and me and rarely bought new release hard backs. But MILLIONS of folks DID buy the hard backs. But there is a relatively small time window when folks don't have other options. Before too long there are used hard backs. Then come the trade paper backs, the more expensive version. Then finally the mass market paper back.

I think you've missed my point somewhat. HansTWN said that if ebook prices dropped too low, then "almost nobody would buy early, but everybody would wait for the price to drop". That didn't happen with paper books, or at least not to the point where there was no point in producing hardbacks. I'd have thought that, just as some people buy the hardback to get the book as soon as they can, some people will buy the ebook at the higher price in order to get it sooner.

Originally Posted by leebase

At no point has the book industry priced the new books at the same price as used. Never have, never will.

With ebooks, there is no concept of "used". Each copy of an ebook is as good as the last. There will be no such thing as used ebooks. Nor will ebooks ever be priced to compete with someone's garage sale of used paperbacks.

I think I may not have been entirely clear. I don't expect ebooks to come down to the same price that I can get a battered paperback. Ebooks (with some notable exceptions) seem to generally go down in price as cheaper paper books become available (so price drops when the trade paperback is released, then again when the mass-market paperback is released). Why not reduce the price again at some point after the mass-market paperback is released?

[leebase]

Originally Posted by rhadin

How does an author combat that price point? How do the Agency 6 combat it?

I do pay and am willing to pay a good price for ebooks from authors who are must reads for me.

You've just answered your own question. And, fwiw, ebooks haven't changed this situation. New books, high priced books, have always had to justify their existence against the competition.

Publishers have to cultivate "must read" authors and then market them effectively.

Lee