02-28-2014, 12:05 PM | #91 | |
Fanatic
Posts: 518
Karma: 4274548
Join Date: Nov 2013
Device: None
|
Quote:
|
|
02-28-2014, 01:03 PM | #92 | |
Grand Sorcerer
Posts: 11,732
Karma: 128354696
Join Date: May 2009
Location: 26 kly from Sgr A*
Device: T100TA,PW2,PRS-T1,KT,FireHD 8.9,K2, PB360,BeBook One,Axim51v,TC1000
|
Quote:
The point about Apple cash cow products being "wants" and not "needs" is 99% true. Microsoft products, on the other hand, are "essential facilities" (as determined by the federal court system in their antitrust case) in their core markets. 80% of their business is "needs", and at least half is "critical needs". The people and companies that buy most Microsoft products use them to be productive and/or earn a living. People who buy Apple cash cows buy mostly for fun, for entertainment, or (maybe) because they're "cool". There is some overlap between the customer bases and both aspire to play in each other's territory but it's been decades since they were direct competitors. Microsoft's consumer successes may be dwarfed by Apple's consumer prowess but Apple's enterprise presence doesn't even reach joke levels. So yes, Apple lives off making people want things they don't need to subsist. Microsoft makes most of their money providing tools that help people produce, things they need. Last edited by fjtorres; 02-28-2014 at 01:09 PM. |
|
Advert | |
|
02-28-2014, 01:20 PM | #93 | |
Evangelist
Posts: 459
Karma: 4818038
Join Date: Dec 2010
Device: Nook, Nook Color, EVO3D, Surface RT, Galaxy S5, Surface 3
|
Quote:
Edit...In regards to your thesis, I understand what you are saying, however to remove the context of the market they play in essentially invalidates the purpose of posting it in the first place. They support their products well in relation to their market. I could apply your thesis about corporate culture to just about any company in existance today. So if you don't want to discuss why your examples are flawed, there is nothing left to discuss. Last edited by pl001; 02-28-2014 at 01:49 PM. Reason: additional thought |
|
02-28-2014, 01:32 PM | #94 | |
Evangelist
Posts: 459
Karma: 4818038
Join Date: Dec 2010
Device: Nook, Nook Color, EVO3D, Surface RT, Galaxy S5, Surface 3
|
Quote:
The iPad and especially the iPhone are far more useful than dedicated e-readers for general consumers and that plays a part in their success. Still, the consumer electronics market tends to be fickle, with companies falling from leadership to obscurity within a few years. It is a risky place to place most of your chips. |
|
02-28-2014, 01:40 PM | #95 | |
Fledgling Demagogue
Posts: 2,384
Karma: 31132263
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: White Plains
Device: Clara HD; Oasis 2; Aura HD; iPad Air; PRS-350; Galaxy S7.
|
Quote:
A producer I know (and who's hired me quite a lot) has worked with everyone from Frank Sinatra and Lou Reed to Princess Superstar and Mobi. He used to make the same comments about macs as the rest of you on MR until he bought a building in Brooklyn and had to set up his own studio using Pro Tools. He still loves his PC, but there wasn't another way to build a studio and make it work professionally and aesthetically. The transitional moment came when he realized he had to abandon his earlier dream of an analog-only studio (he loved his Studer 8000s and George Martin Neves) and began to plan an in-house version of the analog-digital synergy that had always worked for him. Last edited by Prestidigitweeze; 02-28-2014 at 01:50 PM. |
|
Advert | |
|
02-28-2014, 01:57 PM | #96 |
Zealot
Posts: 138
Karma: 3651501
Join Date: Dec 2013
Device: Kindle Paperwhite 2, Gray Kindle Basic
|
EDIT: Reply deleted.
Never mind. I read the posts that surround my own and this thread has turned into a brand war, with people more interested in defending or attacking corporate entities (or accusing me of attacking them unfairly) with unproven generalizations than actually having a meaningful discussion. I will not continue to pour gasoline on this carnival. Have at it, kids. Last edited by hardcastle; 02-28-2014 at 02:01 PM. |
02-28-2014, 02:28 PM | #97 | |
Fanatic
Posts: 518
Karma: 4274548
Join Date: Nov 2013
Device: None
|
Quote:
Its market may reduce from it's current size, but i think they are developing the same sort of audience for their idevice lines. I know lots of people who want a bigger screen but say they will wait for Apple to make one instead of moving to something available right now. |
|
02-28-2014, 02:42 PM | #98 | |
Grand Sorcerer
Posts: 11,732
Karma: 128354696
Join Date: May 2009
Location: 26 kly from Sgr A*
Device: T100TA,PW2,PRS-T1,KT,FireHD 8.9,K2, PB360,BeBook One,Axim51v,TC1000
|
Quote:
Read again: I explicitly said cash cows. (Most of Apple's money is iOS and more precisely, iPhone.) The Mac hasn't been a cash cow at Apple for over a decade. At best it is a legacy product line, at worst an afterthought. It rates just ahead of the non-touch iPods and AppleTV. Apple could lose the entire Mac business and they wouldn't blink. Stock price might even go up. (When I use weasel words it's to simply the discussion. In this case: no Mac, no XBOX or MS mice and keybiards. No need to bring in the outliers; Apple is 99% entertainment and fun--even the phones. MS is mostly business.) Last edited by fjtorres; 02-28-2014 at 02:45 PM. |
|
02-28-2014, 02:51 PM | #99 | |
Evangelist
Posts: 459
Karma: 4818038
Join Date: Dec 2010
Device: Nook, Nook Color, EVO3D, Surface RT, Galaxy S5, Surface 3
|
Quote:
I guess I don't have anything more to say to that. Have a good weekend. |
|
02-28-2014, 03:06 PM | #100 | |
Evangelist
Posts: 459
Karma: 4818038
Join Date: Dec 2010
Device: Nook, Nook Color, EVO3D, Surface RT, Galaxy S5, Surface 3
|
Quote:
Indeed they have always been like this, and they have struggled mightily at times because of it. Today as I mentioned they have far more cash to offset a downswing, but once you lose mindshare it is very difficult to earn it back. Palm, Blackberry, Microsoft, etc have all learned this. Only Microsoft survived, and only because of their diversification. That's the whole point here...I have been saying since page 1 that Apple is not Microsoft because despite perception Microsoft is still growing and making money. They are very different from Apple and the analyst that prompted this thread is nothing more than a blowhard whose main purpose is creating click-bait. Last edited by pl001; 02-28-2014 at 03:12 PM. Reason: even worse writing than my usual attempts |
|
02-28-2014, 03:18 PM | #101 | ||
Ex-Helpdesk Junkie
Posts: 19,421
Karma: 85397180
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: The Beaten Path, USA, Roundworld, This Side of Infinity
Device: Kindle Touch fw5.3.7 (Wifi only)
|
Quote:
Chrome and Firefox don't require you to 'update to a "new" OS that is over 4 years old to use the latest version', which is all that really matters in this case. Quote:
Support for old software is defined by the presence of updates, which for IE would be the IE 9, 10, and now 11 updates. How do you "support" an old version, is this like supporting Firefox 3.0 or something? Oh yay, Microsoft still "supports" Internet Explorer 2. Microsoft does not "support" IE8, they support IE, and only on Win7&8. The fact that they'd discriminate based on which version of the OS you have is frankly, asinine. And it is no matter what company does it. |
||
02-28-2014, 03:29 PM | #102 |
Evangelist
Posts: 459
Karma: 4818038
Join Date: Dec 2010
Device: Nook, Nook Color, EVO3D, Surface RT, Galaxy S5, Surface 3
|
I'm not so sure I'd consider XBOX, Bing, Windows, SkyDrive, etc "outliers". Although I agree business is their bread and butter, and they have recently been struggling with mobile devices, there is little doubt they are serious about the consumer side of things. I think the pieces are in place to start to see success, but it could be too late. They very well could end up more along the lines of IBM, still large and successful but largely out of the public eye.
|
02-28-2014, 03:35 PM | #103 | |
Evangelist
Posts: 459
Karma: 4818038
Join Date: Dec 2010
Device: Nook, Nook Color, EVO3D, Surface RT, Galaxy S5, Surface 3
|
Quote:
But yes, point taken, IE is not "supported" as well as Chrome or Firefox in that regard. But keep in mind all the major browsers are free so it's not a hardship by any means. |
|
02-28-2014, 03:38 PM | #104 | |
Fledgling Demagogue
Posts: 2,384
Karma: 31132263
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: White Plains
Device: Clara HD; Oasis 2; Aura HD; iPad Air; PRS-350; Galaxy S7.
|
Quote:
My point about your previous point was that you focused on the idea of Apple users as a homogeneity of shallow awe. Like you, I'm not using harsh words to criticize an opponent's imagined attitude but to explain a point of disagreement. First, I don't agree that mac laptops are irrelevant. We've been talking about them all along and they're still viable. I can agree with you about the Mac Pro. Second, saying that Apple hardware is not essential to any business and that its user base isn't driven by need is saying that none of the artists and writers I know matter because they aren't real business people and aren't really dependent on macs for making a living. The error is associating a mindset, attitude and IQ level with a product, as if said product revealed anything significant about the person who used it. Personal analysis by product choice is the phrenology of capitalism. I'm not saying this because I think you're guilty of dismissing artists' intelligence and depth by design. I'm saying that that's what the argument itself implies. |
|
02-28-2014, 04:24 PM | #105 | |
Ex-Helpdesk Junkie
Posts: 19,421
Karma: 85397180
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: The Beaten Path, USA, Roundworld, This Side of Infinity
Device: Kindle Touch fw5.3.7 (Wifi only)
|
Quote:
And why is it so obvious to you that older OS versions don't deserve the latest version of a software that is fully capable of running on the older system? I would understand if a program is simply too resource-intensive/complex/requires libraries not available for older systems/something, but if Chrome and FF both find it technologically feasible to support WinXP, then Microsoft can do it so. The only reason they don't is because of politics! Why? |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Apple re-"invents" Xerox's "Location based services" | kartu | News | 9 | 11-20-2011 01:21 PM |
B&N: Microsoft Forcing "Oppressive" Agreements on Android? | kjk | News | 22 | 11-17-2011 12:01 PM |
New York Times- "Microsoft and HP to Debut Courier Tomorrow" | Dulin's Books | News | 18 | 01-07-2010 12:11 AM |
Can I convert "Secure" Microsoft Reader to LRF? | seanrose | Fictionwise eBookwise | 6 | 10-07-2009 11:39 AM |
Microsoft Reader plugin "Read in" for Word doesn't load anymore | K-Thom | Reading and Management | 15 | 04-17-2009 05:52 AM |