Astak representative sales pitches

[Seabound]

Originally Posted by zelda_pinwheel

Regarding requests for an announcement of the Astak devices, Astak has previously been featured on the MobileRead frontpage. The MobileRead team has not so far seen the need for any additional announcements, because Robertb has been very active on MobileRead as an official representative of the Astak brand, which is a unique situation. Given his high activity here, we consider that it is superfluous to create an additional thread to duplicate his announcements which are already quite well publicised. MobileRead is an independent site, and we have to be careful to avoid showing favoritism to one company over the others. There are no Sony reps posting officially in Sony's name on MobileRead, that is why we do the reporting ourselves. We must think about a balance in the news here and Astak has already quite a high profile due to Robertb's presence. It's important we not neglect other brands which are not as actively represented here but which are important to our readers.

With all due respect, Zelda, this reasoning does not register as valid to my logic. The MR homepage is a high-profile page. When someone types in "mobileread.com", the homepage is the first thing that is seen by visitors to MR. The format of the homepage is different from that of the forums---whereas topics in a forum are listed such that only titles are given, the articles posted on the homepage are given in full, usually with photos, and thus are quite prominent. Topics in forums can sink and rise depending on activity, and so it is easy for a particular topic to get lost in a sea of other topics, whereas a homepage article can stay on the front page for as much as days during slow news periods. So, even if RobertB actively starts threads for Astak products (and I don't think he starts unreasonable topics nor are they excessive in number), this information is easily obtained mostly by those who already frequent the MR forums and know their way around. What of those who are new to eBooks, new to MR, or who accidentally stumble upon MR looking for information about eBook readers? I imagine they will not immediately know just by browsing about the existence of the Astak products, especially the 5-inch Pocket Pro, the availability of which, I think, does deserve a spot on the front page because of its technical features, which are no longer rumors. (Yes, it is now at the bottom of the "week's hot topics column", but that is still not equivalent to a front page spot, for the same reasons I've stated.) Much less will these visitors suspect any favoritism for Astak, in my opinion. Far from it. RoberB does not have the power to put his topics on the front page; moderators do.

So, really, the reasoning in the quoted post applies only to frequent readers of MR. And, as can be seen from the responses of some people, rather than avoiding the appearance of favoritism for some brands, the application of that kind of reasoning leads some to suspect the existence of such favoritism. But maybe it is more accurately described as being due to RobertB falling out of favor with some moderators. But then how does that benefit the general public looking for information about eBook readers? I guess this is a good time for MR moderators, managers, and owners to do a reevaluation of the goals and mission of MR, including the purpose of the MR homepage.

[Alexander Turcic]

Originally Posted by Seabound

I imagine they will not immediately know just by browsing about the existence of the Astak products, especially the 5-inch Pocket Pro, the availability of which, I think, does deserve a spot on the front page because of its technical features, which are no longer rumors. (Yes, it is now at the bottom of the "week's hot topics column", but that is still not equivalent to a front page spot, for the same reasons I've stated.)

https://www.mobileread.com/forums/showthread.php?t=48120

June 2nd, 2009. Astak announced today that it will be the new North American distributor of the Hanlin V5 (aka Bebook Mini). The V5 has been rebranded as the Pocket Pro, and has a retail of $199. It should be available in about 2 months. The Pocket Pro will come with support for Adobe DRMed Epub. Fictionwise eReader is also offered as an option.

But maybe it is more accurately described as being due to RobertB falling out of favor with some moderators. But then how does that benefit the general public looking for information about eBook readers?

Information is good. I said that multiple times in this regard. Blatant advertisement is not good. We contacted RobertB a month ago to share our concern with him. He didn't respond. This behavior is not only rude, but disrespectful and ungrateful.

[John F]

Originally Posted by Musicman

...

However, the past week we had the Official Pre-Order news with a reduction in Price to 199.99 and that was not considered front page news.

...

and

June 2nd, 2009. Astak announced today that it will be the new North American distributor of the Hanlin V5 (aka Bebook Mini). The V5 has been rebranded as the Pocket Pro, and has a retail of $199. It should be available in about 2 months. The Pocket Pro will come with support for Adobe DRMed Epub. Fictionwise eReader is also offered as an option.

How is going from a price of $199 to $199 a price reduction?

While robertb contributes some very useful posts, I would hate to see forums flooded with marketing "spam". If many companies start doing what Robertb is doing, it will make Mobile Read, IMO, a much less enjoyable site (I'll end up wading thru many useless threads of marketing propaganda in the main forum ).

Skipping over all the threads/posts about device color is bad enough.

-John

[Musicman]

Originally Posted by John F

and



How is going from a price of $199 to $199 a price reduction?

While robertb contributes some very useful posts, I would hate to see forums flooded with marketing "spam". If many companies start doing what Robertb is doing, it will make Mobile Read, IMO, a much less enjoyable site (I'll end up wading thru many useless threads of marketing propaganda in the main forum ).

Skipping over all the threads/posts about device color is bad enough.

-John

The price first posted for Pre-Orders was 229.00.

I presume due to the Sony announcement, they reduced it to 199.

There are two issues at play here and we should not confuse them.

First is marketing propaganda. If you feel that someone crosses that line then steps should be taken to correct it. I agree.

Second, which is the issue of most concern, is that News is News and when something news worthy happens it should be on the front page not matter what company.

If a company violates item number one, it should not be punished in item 2.

I am sure that currently we have reps from all the major players here marketing their products under the guise of a user. I am more concerned with this type of marketing ploy then by the one where the person has made it publicly known they are a representative of a company.

[Alexander Turcic]

Musicman, the point is that the price of $199 wasn't new - it was already announced on our frontpage in June. Second, we did take steps to correct the "marketing propaganda" - we contacted RobertB. But he didn't respond. Lastly, and I agree - we have always followed this rule: news is news when it's newsworthy, no matter what company.

[slayda]

I noticed that the title of this thread is "Astak representative sales pitches". So far I haven't seen an such pitches. Perhaps what was meant was a thread where such pitches could be discussed. I've often been fooled by the title wording of threads, thinking I would find information only to find jive. Had the title been "Discussion of Astak representative sales pitches" it would have been more clear what was being discussed.

Also in all fairness, I remember when there was so much discussion about the Kindle that I was afraid my computer would catch fire from all the kindling. I think I even raised the point then but no one of the moderators made any response against them (to my memory).

I realize there is a "Hanlin" forum, but how many new visitors are aware of the "many faces of Hanlin". I would suspect not many, even though those of us who have been around for a while are aware. The point is that if a new person was looking for information about the EZ Reader or Astak, there is no clear starting point like there is for Sony or Kindle. I also realize that while MR is a world wide BLOG (a fact that has been a great attraction for me personally) there are a large number of North American members who may not have heard of BeBook, Ibook, Hanlin, ECO Reader, just to name a few that originated from Jinke. Even in the WIKI, one must read down through the reader matrix to find EZ Reader (and I am not suggesting changing the WIKI.

Many of us from the USA were finding good, valid data from that thread. Yes there was hype just as can be found in any thread - not always even concerning ebooks or reading devices. Not all of that hype came from RobertB. However due to the way Jinke does world wide business, he (within the MR BLOG) has been our link to information about the US distribution of Jinke products.

For me that was a good & useful thing. People who didn't want that information (or hype) didn't have to read it just as I finally realized I didn't have to read the Kindle hype. We each pick and choose what we want to listen to and respond to. That is one of the beauties of MR.

Bottom line for me is RobertB was providing a valuable asset, for which I was thankful.

[Alexander Turcic]

Originally Posted by slayda

I realize there is a "Hanlin" forum, but how many new visitors are aware of the "many faces of Hanlin".

Coincidentally, this is a topic that is currently being discussed as we are updating our forum structure. One of the most difficult aspects is how we should deal with OEM devices that are essentially not much different from each other.

I believe, and this is my personal belief and does not necessary agree with everyone else in the team, that a regular visitor does not care about his device being OEM or not. It was suggested that we create a catch-all category for these devices; however, it seems to me that it would be more appropriate to create unique sections for those devices that are popular enough. So I see that it'd be quite possible to have a BeBook section along with a Astak section, for instance, even though discussions within these sections may occasionally deal with similar topics. That is, as long as there is a critical mass of interested people for a particular device or brand.

[rixte]

While I appreciate the fact that RobertB is honest about his presence and reason for, I found a lot of his posts over the line as an official representative of the company and they really put me off - both the criticism of competitor products (which I think always reflects badly) and the frequent complaints that people on mobileread weren't paying enough attention to his products.

[daffy4u]

Originally Posted by slayda

Also in all fairness, I remember when there was so much discussion about the Kindle that I was afraid my computer would catch fire from all the kindling. I think I even raised the point then but no one of the moderators made any response against them (to my memory).

It's all cyclical. When K2 came out there were a lot of threads covering it (the DX a little less so). When the 700 came out, it also generated a lot of threads as the new 300 and 600s are now. When Plastic Logic hits, that will get everyone's attention as will PixelQi and so on and so on.

I agree that Kindle and Sony get the most press and attention here but they are the big fish right now.

The industry is in flux and a year from now, it could be a very different story.

[slayda]

Originally Posted by Alexander Turcic

Coincidentally, this is a topic that is currently being discussed as we are updating our forum structure. One of the most difficult aspects is how we should deal with OEM devices that are essentially not much different from each other.

I believe, and this is my personal belief and does not necessary agree with everyone else in the team, that a regular visitor does not care about his device being OEM or not. It was suggested that we create a catch-all category for these devices; however, it seems to me that it would be more appropriate to create unique sections for those devices that are popular enough. So I see that it'd be quite possible to have a BeBook section along with a Astak section, for instance, even though discussions within these sections may occasionally deal with similar topics. That is, as long as there is a critical mass of interested people for a particular device or brand.

I concur with your opinion.

[emellaich]

I want to see RobertB here and participating fully. I think defining 'hype' is a useless exercise. What you feel is hype may be news to me and vice versa. If I put myself in RobertB's shoes, it seems like it might be real difficult to figure out what kind of posts would be over the line.

So, how do we control it? I'd like it to be centralized to its own thread or forum as it generally is now. If you don't like it, just don't read it. Under this approach there would be a few activities that would be discouraged. Multiple posts on the same topic in different threads would be a no-no. Also posting in a competing product thread would be out of bounds: "you think that Sony 300 is good, just check out our Astak".

So my vote (for whatever its worth, I know I am a minor participant and relative newcomer) is to allow complete, open and unfettered access to manufacturer's reps, but to focus their activity in one or two narrowly defined threads or forums so users can either seek them out or avoid them.

Finally, I would distinguish between manufacturer's reps who sell branded readers and the inevitable 'get a free Kindle if you make 1,000 referalls' spam threads.

[kanguro]

What policy do you have for what is a sales pitch and what is not?
You're goin' to moderate us all if we praise our reader, or compare favorably with
competition features?
This is not how the free internet works, I think.
Having the key is not the guarantee of rightfully using it.

[Alexander Turcic]

Originally Posted by kanguro

What policy do you have for what is a sales pitch and what is not?
You're goin' to moderate us all if we praise our reader, or compare favorably with
competition features?
This is not how the free internet works, I think.
Having the key is not the guarantee of rightfully using it.

I have no idea what you are talking about. Moderate us all? Whatever. The point is that we do not have formalized our policies regarding blatant advertisement yet. Until now this wasn't necessary where common sense has always worked.

[Musicman]

Originally Posted by slayda

Many of us from the USA were finding good, valid data from that thread. Yes there was hype just as can be found in any thread - not always even concerning ebooks or reading devices. Not all of that hype came from RobertB. However due to the way Jinke does world wide business, he (within the MR BLOG) has been our link to information about the US distribution of Jinke products.

For me that was a good & useful thing. People who didn't want that information (or hype) didn't have to read it just as I finally realized I didn't have to read the Kindle hype. We each pick and choose what we want to listen to and respond to. That is one of the beauties of MR.

Bottom line for me is RobertB was providing a valuable asset, for which I was thankful.

I agree. Before finding this forum, the only competitor to Sony and Amazon I knew of was Bebook. I hesitated to go with them because there were no distibutors in the US. When I found out about Astak here I was able to ask Robertb about his device and get valuable information for me to make a decision.

I also find him a valuable asset here and the person on the front line where you can go for an answer to any problems you may have.

[Alexander Turcic]

Originally Posted by Musicman

I also find him a valuable asset here and the person on the front line where you can go for an answer to any problems you may have.

Robertb is a valuable and appreciated addition. So we do all agree.

Excellent! And if we follow our common sense and show respect to each other, to the community and to the team, there should not be any more need to discuss this matter.