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Old 12-16-2011, 10:49 AM   #16
Daithi
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I can only go with my own personal reaction to the new pricing. I bought a lot fewer best sellers this year than I did last year. I've also bought more used physical books this year than I did last year. I have also tried a lot more self-published authors this year than I did last year. Of course changes to my buying patterns are all just anecdotal evidence, but if I am not the only one who has changed his purchasing habits then the publishers truly are shooting themselves in the foot.
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Old 12-16-2011, 11:00 AM   #17
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Huh? You mean a lot of people actually bought hardcover best sellers at full price rather than waiting a few months for either a used copy, the library copy, or a paperback copy? No wonder the publishers are now running scared. That kind of scam can only go on for so long. I always figured it was some kind of artificial number based on wholesale sales or something, without counting returns.

For the record, I never bought many best sellers (in any format) because my taste is not the common taste. I only bought hard covers of authors I really, really liked and didn't mind rewarding a little extra. Waiting for a few months to read the book from the library or in paperback is no hardship. So many books, so little time.

OTOH, I just bought 4 books in a series in quick succession because they're only $1.49 each, excellent backlist titles, and I can download them instantly. The author made 3 sales she wouldn't have made.

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Old 12-16-2011, 11:12 AM   #18
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I would buy my favorite authors in harback when they came out. I didn't have the patience to wait for the paperback. Admitidly, I buy my favorite authors when they come out on e-book and pay the higher prices, same logic.

I prefered Amazon's cheaper prices and have been able to identify more clearly what authors I will pay a silly price for. That number has dropped significantly. I have more then enough books on my e-reader that I can read something new without worrying about the latest Dresden novel.
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Old 12-16-2011, 11:16 AM   #19
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No one need tell the publishers anything. They either are selling their ebooks or they are not. There are more free and cheap ebook options than anyone could read in a lifetime.


Don't want to pay the price...then don't. Spend your money elsewhere. That's the only message that will matter.

Me...I'm buying the latest Tom Clancy because it's a product I'm willing to pay for. The problem isn't the publishers. The problem is me. Well and the millions like me.

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Old 12-16-2011, 12:02 PM   #20
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The issue isn't whether there's added value or not, it's that the publishers have colluded to raise the price. If the price goes up because people see an added benefit and are willing to pay more, that's fine; that's the normal operation of a market. But if the price goes up because all of the competitors have gotten together to set a price floor, that warps the marketplace and screws over consumers.

There's a reason agreements between competitors to set pricing is illegal in most countries. In Canada, this behaviour is a criminal offence, punishable by jail time for corporate directors and officers and/or multi-million dollar fines.
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Old 12-16-2011, 12:18 PM   #21
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I can say that I'm more likely to NOT buy new at the current prices. I go for self-pubs and the like.

When I have to have it and the price disagrees with me...I look for a Very Good quality HB used version. I've gotten a lot of HB "new" books that way.

Either way, the author looses out.
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Old 12-16-2011, 12:36 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ninjalawyer View Post
The issue isn't whether there's added value or not, it's that the publishers have colluded to raise the price.
No, the article specifically discusses the author's belief that higher prices on ebooks will negatively affect the ebook market.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ninjalawyer
if the price goes up because all of the competitors have gotten together to set a price floor, that warps the marketplace and screws over consumers.
True, but so far there is pretty much zero indication that has happened.

The difference between agency and retail pricing is that with agency, the publisher chooses what price to set, rather than letting the retailer purchase the item wholesale and charge whatever they want. To date there is no indication that publishers are coordinating prices.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ninjalawyer
There's a reason agreements between competitors to set pricing is illegal in most countries. In Canada, this behaviour is a criminal offence, punishable by jail time for corporate directors and officers and/or multi-million dollar fines.
In several European nations, it is a legal requirement for paper book prices to be set by the publishers, and for retailers not to compete against one another on price. These are known as Fixed Book Price Laws or "Lang Laws."

Agency pricing works the same way. In fact, it makes much more sense than the wholesale model, because retailers are not paying in advance for 10,000 physical objects -- i.e. they are taking on far less risk, therefore it makes sense for them to have less control over pricing.

I might add, there wasn't apparently anything illegal about Apple insisting that downloadable music tracks be set at 99¢; with self-publishers specifying prices at services like Smashwords or Amazon; or with "app stores" like Apple and Android Market letting software publishers set their own prices.

The only way it's illegal (in the US at least) is if the publishers are collaborating as an industry in order to set a specific price, with the intent of harming their competitors. I.e. if they got together and said "let's lowball our prices so the small publishers can't afford to compete," that would be a major anti-trust issue. So far, there is no evidence to suggest that kind of anti-competitive behavior.
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Old 12-16-2011, 01:45 PM   #23
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Good post, very informative.

I would say though that there is some indication that publishers have illegally colluded; the Department of Justice is already investigating the issue, as is the European Union. So not exactly "no evidence to suggest that" anti-competitive behaviour took place.

Your point about retailers taking on much less risk is a good one. But, your example of Apple pricing tracks at $0.99 is not relevant; Apple is a retailer and not a competitor to content producers, it can set its pricing policy as it likes.

The allegations (so far) are that Apple colluded with 5 major publishers to ensure that retailers like Amazon and Kobo couldn't undercut Apple's prices. This is different than the iTunes example as it is the publishers (each notionally a competitor of the other) made an agreement with the effect of reducing competition in the marketplace and raising the price of some ebooks.

Last edited by Ninjalawyer; 12-16-2011 at 01:50 PM.
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Old 12-16-2011, 02:43 PM   #24
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Well, that and the fact that the only way to sell books in the IBook store was to have implemented the Agency Model. I believe that Random House was the only one of the big Publishing houses to not immediatly agree to Agency Pricing and there books were not sold in the IBook store. Recently Random House agreed to the Agency Pricing and their books were allowed to be sold in the IBook store.

But there is nothing suspicious there.

Nope

Nothing at all
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Old 12-16-2011, 02:54 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Tingle View Post
Huh? You mean a lot of people actually bought hardcover best sellers at full price rather than waiting a few months for either a used copy, the library copy, or a paperback copy? No wonder the publishers are now running scared. That kind of scam can only go on for so long. I always figured it was some kind of artificial number based on wholesale sales or something, without counting returns.
I would buy hardcover books immediately, but they were never at full price--Amazon or BN would discount them right from the get-go. I do not like waiting for my favorite authors. I would be paying $15-20 for the book; now I'm paying about $13-15 for the corresponding e-book. I don't object to this--I think that pricing is fine for newly published books.

I do have a problem with the e-book prices for books available in paperback, especially backlist books. There, I think the publishers are way out of line in what they're charging for e-books.
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Old 12-16-2011, 03:37 PM   #26
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No one need tell the publishers anything. They either are selling their ebooks or they are not. There are more free and cheap ebook options than anyone could read in a lifetime.
Actually, it's kinda good to tell them so that they know. You know, so that they don't accuse their customers of being criminals when/if their sales plummet.

I mean, every time someone asks me about my ereader I say that it's wonderful for public domain works because there's finally a way to get free stuff for free without lugging around a computer, squinting to read the text on a phone/PDA, rummaging around libraries, or paying lots of money for a print copy. I even point out that the library has lots of current titles. But as soon as people ask about the cost of buying a book their jaw drops to the floor. Many people simply do not want to nearly the same price for an ebook as they would for a printed copy. Especially since they would have to invest $100 in an ereader. I'm also guessing that people attach value to physical objects that they wouldn't attach to computer files.

The only thing that sales tell publishers is whether their product is moving or not. Ideally that comes from market research rather than anecdotal evidence, but anecdotal evidence will have to do for people like us (since publishers are unlikely to publish the results of their own research).
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Old 12-16-2011, 04:17 PM   #27
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Surely there has to be a price for content, well, quality content at least, otherwise how wld the creators of said content pay for their espressos? Your artist has to live. That said, I am glad that prices have tumbled because the large publishing houses have had their day. Think of the trees we are saving. It is so much cheaper to ship an e book and so it is fair that the prices are lower. It seems right for several reasons. But the poor little author needs his crumb, esp if he is doing it all himself. Ach, there is something noble about that. But then perhaps i am just an idiot romantic.
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Old 12-16-2011, 04:45 PM   #28
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A senior vice-president at Hachette Digital, a unit of one of the world’s largest publishing firms, tells the Journal that she believes “there has been a change in the understanding of the value of a digital book,” and that readers see the added value and are willing to pay extra for it.


one word: vook.

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Old 12-16-2011, 05:22 PM   #29
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The main thing that will hurt the publishers is not producing books people are willing to pay for. Selling ebooks for $13-15 is not going to hurt the publishers who's retail for those SAME books was $25/30. Yeah, yeah, we all know that nobody paid the retail price...but hardback books were still going for $15-20.

If someone doesn't think $15 is fair for an ebook, so they buy the hardback instead...that's still a sale for the publisher.

What isn't a sale is a book no one wants to buy.

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Old 12-16-2011, 05:46 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by R J Askew View Post
Surely there has to be a price for content, well, quality content at least, otherwise how wld the creators of said content pay for their espressos? Your artist has to live. That said, I am glad that prices have tumbled because the large publishing houses have had their day. Think of the trees we are saving. It is so much cheaper to ship an e book and so it is fair that the prices are lower. It seems right for several reasons. But the poor little author needs his crumb, esp if he is doing it all himself. Ach, there is something noble about that. But then perhaps i am just an idiot romantic.
What trees are we saving??? Trees for pulp, to make paper, are planted specifically for that purpose... chop 'em down and plant again (usually more as paper use still increasing) but reducing paper use means less trees planted as there will be no point in planting for unwanted paper production. The endangered trees are NOT used for paper, nobody uses tropical rain forest hardwoods for paper production...
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