12-27-2011, 10:52 AM | #1 |
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The Dutch letter 'IJ'.
Kovid,
I just found out that the author J. IJmker (note the capitalisation) gets sorted with the I, as if written Ijmker. However, in Dutch the IJ is not a combination of the letters I and J, but a single letter, the 'IJ' (or 'long Y', as opposed to the 'ei' diphthong which sounds the same and is called 'short Y'), lower case 'ij' which is supposed to be sorted with the 'Y' (which is called 'Y-grec' or 'Greek Y' in Dutch). To recap: 'ei': Two letters, called 'short Y', gets sorted with E (as expected). 'IJ': single letter, to be sorted as Y. Y: called 'Y-grec' or 'Greek Y' and sorted as Y (as expected). Another small point: Calibre does not recognize Roman numerals in names (as in 'Victor Appleton II' for instance) and also sorts them as 'I' Can you tell I've been cleaning up my authors starting with 'I' today? |
12-27-2011, 11:05 AM | #2 | |
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You can adjust the Author Sort value to your tastes. (I find that I need to fix Authors with Generation as part of their name) |
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12-27-2011, 11:37 AM | #3 |
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I think what he was complaining about is that in dutch, the 'ij' should be sorted before (after?) the 'y' and not as a 'i'. I don't know how to fix that, though, possibly some Python internationalization magic is needed...
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12-27-2011, 12:02 PM | #4 |
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The sorting rules depend on the language you select for the calibre interface and they are provided by the ICU project. They cannot be modified further in calibre code.
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12-28-2011, 02:50 AM | #5 | |
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Thanks for the explanation. |
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12-28-2011, 05:02 AM | #6 | |
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I know that in the Netherlands, most people consider a 'IJ' as a modificated 'Y', and sort accordingly: IJzer comes after York in the Netherlands... But in Belgium a IJ is considered as a combination of I and J, and words are sorted that way: IJzer comes before intussen in Flanders... And... as far as I know... Dutch dictionaries like Van Dale (which is considered 'reference') do it the 'Belgian' way... Last edited by AnneT; 12-28-2011 at 05:04 AM. |
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12-28-2011, 05:42 AM | #7 | |
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As always, Wikipedia is a good first reference: IJ And you're right, dictionaries treat it as I+J (as do the Belgians and the Taalunie), which I personally find very odd, and is not what I was taught in school. I was taught what Horlings (warning, Dutch text) calls the 'Hollands' point of view: that IJ and Y are variant glyphs of the same letter, and the Dutch alfabet ends with X IJ Z. This is what the Dutch phone directory does (treating Y and IJ as the same letter for sorting). Confusing, but fun |
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12-28-2011, 09:34 AM | #8 |
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Actually, I'm Belgian, live in Belgium, and work in the Netherlands.
I always had problems when searching for a name with a 'ij' in our filing system... In fact, in Belgium, we learn(ed) that the alphabet ends 'x ypsilon z'. For us, y and ij are something different. When we learned to write capitals, we wrote 'ijs' at the beginning of a sentence as 'Ijs', not as 'IJs'. What we learned about the 'ij' was, like Horlings says: 'Eigenlijk bestaat de ij niet eens. Het is een samengesteld letterteken' (As a matter of facts, the ij doesn't really exist. It is a compound lettersign.') But in Belgium, we still consider it as a compound lettersign, just like (other) diphtongs like ei and aai and ieu. So accordingly, we sort ij and y different. It's always fun to see how the same language is treated just a little bit different on both sides of the border. |
12-28-2011, 09:55 AM | #9 | |
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Yep, like they say, 'Two nations devided by a common language' (said of the UK and the USA, but Belgium and the Netherlands fit too...) |
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12-29-2011, 03:21 AM | #10 | |
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