Keeping track of your story

[James_Wilde]

Actually I have now got a snow leopard guest running in Virtualbox on a W7 host, with Scrivener. I'll be testing it this weekend. I've even added my preferred Linux Libertine fonts. Works like a charm. God, I love Macs!

[dadioflex]

Originally Posted by James_Wilde

However I got the tip to try Scrivener, and I have to say, even though there's now a Windows version, and even an unofficial trial on Linux, Scrivener strikes me as so good it's worth buying a Mac just to be able to use it.

Yes. Definitely this. Ignore the Windows version and buy a Mac to run the same software, while you write the definitive "100 Money-Saving Tips" manual.

[gmw]

Originally Posted by James_Wilde

Actually I have now got a snow leopard guest running in Virtualbox on a W7 host, with Scrivener. I'll be testing it this weekend. I've even added my preferred Linux Libertine fonts. Works like a charm. God, I love Macs!

Umm... have I missed something here? I thought there were some strict licensing conditions that were supposed to prevent you (legally) running a Mac guest over a non-Mac host. I can't remember where I read it now, so maybe I got something wrong.

[James_Wilde]

No, you're not missing anything. Well, actually, you are. The OSX server can run as a legal guest. But not a normal OSX client.

[gmw]

Originally Posted by James_Wilde

No, you're not missing anything. Well, actually, you are. The OSX server can run as a legal guest. But not a normal OSX client.

So, is the OSX server anything like a Windows Server, where there is nothing really stopping you from using it like a normal client PC? (Except perhaps the cost). I would like to experiment with a Mac some time, but while ever they stop me looking (via a VM) before I leap (and consider hardware), they're keeping me out of the game (which isn't suppose to restart the DRM debate, although the parallels are pretty obvious).

[VydorScope]

Originally Posted by gmw

So, is the OSX server anything like a Windows Server, where there is nothing really stopping you from using it like a normal client PC? (Except perhaps the cost). I would like to experiment with a Mac some time, but while ever they stop me looking (via a VM) before I leap (and consider hardware), they're keeping me out of the game (which isn't suppose to restart the DRM debate, although the parallels are pretty obvious).

Ok, I am not a lawyer here, but this is the words from the ELUA

I. Other Use Restrictions. The grants set forth in this License do not permit you to, and you agree not to, install, use or run the Apple Software on any non-Apple-branded computer, or to enable others to do so.

So if you live in a country where the EULA is considered a binding legal contract (its not clear to me if that is true in USA or not) then it seems to me its clearly illegal.

However, to the best of my knowledge Apple has not enforced it. The hackintosh community is fairly large, and very public about what they do. If Apple wanted to enforce it, the field is ripe with targets.

[aecardenas]

I use Scrivener. And you can use it to manage your epic saga just fine, showing it in Outline or Corkboard view, and then drag and drop scenes from one section to another with relative ease. Then output each book into whatever format you require for publication.

[gmw]

Originally Posted by VydorScope

[...]So if you live in a country where the EULA is considered a binding legal contract (its not clear to me if that is true in USA or not) then it seems to me its clearly illegal.

However, to the best of my knowledge Apple has not enforced it. The hackintosh community is fairly large, and very public about what they do. If Apple wanted to enforce it, the field is ripe with targets.

Was that quote from the OSX server or the normal client version? As far as I knew (not from experience, just what I'd read) there are checks in the normal client software that try to prevent it from running on non-Apple hardware. I had read about hacks available to got past such restrictions, but that's not a path I was interested in following.

[VydorScope]

Originally Posted by gmw

Was that quote from the OSX server or the normal client version? As far as I knew (not from experience, just what I'd read) there are checks in the normal client software that try to prevent it from running on non-Apple hardware. I had read about hacks available to got past such restrictions, but that's not a path I was interested in following.

As far as I know there is no hardware checks, or if there are Virtual Box/VMWare/etc all know how to fake the hardware sufficiently well. I have not attempted any of this, instead I own a iMac and a Macbook where I run OSX native.

[frahse]

Originally Posted by gmw

I've done the first book of a series, currently struggling to conclude the second and have an rough outline for a third and yet another book two-thirds done that I am not sure where (or if) it fits yet ... and various other bits. So far I've been doing it all in OpenOffice: Each chapter in its own document, a master document for merging it all together and a collection of other documents for various sorts of notes.

It's been working okay, but the further I get in the more I find I'm having trouble remembering whether item x was in the notes for this book or the last book. One of the documents I keep for each book is a time-line which helps me keep the various threads working together consistently (it's quite curious to see how threads feed off each other as a result). Due to the way I have been writing these novels the time-lines play an important role.

Anyway, I've been browsing through this forum and noticing quite a number of people using Scrivener, so I downloaded and took a look. It's interesting, and there is a lot to like in it, but I'm not convinced it will help me very much over what I am already doing in OpenOffice ... in particular, I couldn't work out how I might get it to help me keep my time-lines - and if that's going to be stuck in OpenOffice then I figure the rest might as well stay there as well.

I'm not so unhappy with OpenOffice that I would leave it for just anything, I even have a sort of automatic log/snapshot feature by using subversion (I'm a programmer so it's already on my system, my books are just another project on the server). But I was wondering what other software may make keeping track of my ever expanding story a little easier.

I'm about to trial Liquid Story Binder as I see that has a time-line feature. I can't say that WriteWayPro looks appealing from the website, but I guess I'll take a look at that if LSB doesn't work out. yWriter5 I've yet to study.

I was curious to know how others cope.

This is really, really a great thread. I have learned a lot of things, and am mulling over others.

[gmw]

Originally Posted by VydorScope

As far as I know there is no hardware checks, or if there are Virtual Box/VMWare/etc all know how to fake the hardware sufficiently well. I have not attempted any of this, instead I own a iMac and a Macbook where I run OSX native.

I'm thinking things may have changed with OSX 10.7 - this is the first version (which I've only just noticed is there) officially supported by VMware (which is what I use). The only other versions noted are Server versions - but they all say things like: "You must have an Apple-labeled computer to install OS X 10.7 in a virtual machine." - but whether this is simply to comply with the EULA, or because there are hardware checks, not I cannot say. When VirtualBox released OSX support (in 2010) they said "Unofficially, you can install Snow Leopard and run it in VirtualBox on any PC by using a couple hacks and installing OSx86." Moral: Remember to read the fine print. Software claims to "support" something can be as bad a software EULA's, full of little loop-holes and technicalities.

[VydorScope]

Originally Posted by gmw

I'm thinking things may have changed with OSX 10.7 - this is the first version (which I've only just noticed is there) officially supported by VMware (which is what I use). The only other versions noted are Server versions - but they all say things like: "You must have an Apple-labeled computer to install OS X 10.7 in a virtual machine." - but whether this is simply to comply with the EULA, or because there are hardware checks, not I cannot say. When VirtualBox released OSX support (in 2010) they said "Unofficially, you can install Snow Leopard and run it in VirtualBox on any PC by using a couple hacks and installing OSx86." Moral: Remember to read the fine print. Software claims to "support" something can be as bad a software EULA's, full of little loop-holes and technicalities.

Well.... I think we have drifted a bit






With regards to the topic, I am still chipping away at using the wiki. I think it will be a decent tool... and would currently be already had I built it as I went... just gonna take a while now!

[gmw]

Originally Posted by VydorScope

[...]With regards to the topic, I am still chipping away at using the wiki. I think it will be a decent tool... and would currently be already had I built it as I went... just gonna take a while now!

How much do you see it really integrating with your writing effort itself (if you were starting a new work)? What I mean is ... I tend to scribble snippets of dialogue and stuff in strange places, and then later want to move them into the story (or more often, move stuff out ). From what I've seen of various Wiki software, simple cut-n-paste between it and the word-processor is likely to be something of a problem - perhaps so much so as to effectively require retyping? Not the end of the world, but curious to know how you're finding that sort of thing. (Or perhaps it's a non-issue for your intended use.)

[VydorScope]

Originally Posted by gmw

How much do you see it really integrating with your writing effort itself (if you were starting a new work)? What I mean is ... I tend to scribble snippets of dialogue and stuff in strange places, and then later want to move them into the story (or more often, move stuff out ). From what I've seen of various Wiki software, simple cut-n-paste between it and the word-processor is likely to be something of a problem - perhaps so much so as to effectively require retyping? Not the end of the world, but curious to know how you're finding that sort of thing. (Or perhaps it's a non-issue for your intended use.)

That is a different kind of note then I am thinking of. For that Scrivener is far superior.

I am working on book four in a series and using the Wiki for encyclopedia type notes. For example in my series wizards cast spells using words of power, so I have notes on what words do what. That way the same words always do the same thing.

Copy/paste from the Wiki actually should work fine though. At least in MS Word, (I assume others too) there are features like "paste and merge formatting" or "paste as plain text" that really help.

[gmw]

Originally Posted by VydorScope

That is a different kind of note then I am thinking of. For that Scrivener is far superior. [...]

I can see where the sort of encyclopedic notes you are talking about might work well separated. And I certainly see that the way Scrivener lets you bounce back and forth between things areas while writing is really very neat. ... But you can't blame a person for keeping their eyes out for the perfect solution to all the things they want in one simple easy to use package. Meanwhile I'll drag myself back to the real world and do some actual writing. Thanks for your feedback, good luck with your Wikiing.