What Advice Can You Give Independent Authors?

TwoKindsofColor · 01-14-2011, 06:42 PM

The biggest complaints that come from Indie Authors, is their hard time connecting with readers. What advice can you give us?

Always best regards,
Deborah Kennedy

elcreative · 01-14-2011, 09:28 PM

Get publicity... an unknown book is not a sale, doesn't matter how good it is, if I don't know it exists then I'll never find out...

Get it reviewed on review sites (means giving copies away), try and get it reviewed in the press (even local papers can help), enter writing competitions especially those in national newspapers, start your own website/blog, some people use Facebook for PR... be prepared to wait...

HarryT · 01-15-2011, 01:15 AM

Have your book professionally edited. Poor (or, more often, non-existent) editing is the single worst fault of the overwhelming majority of independently-published books. It costs money, but it's money that you can't afford not to spend.

caleb72 · 01-15-2011, 02:16 AM

I agree
With HarryT.

Editing and proof-reading I've already noticed is a big problem. Find someone that you really trust to read your work for you before you go "live". Not easy I know, but misused words, blatant grammar issues and typos can really reduce the appreciation of a book when used to professionally edited works.

Where do you find these people? Probably wouldn't hurt to start right here. You may need to negotiate a little informal payment, or maybe not depending on the person - but I think you're shooting yourself in the foot if you think that your work can survive without 3rd party proof-reading at least.

Next comes the marketing and I think that the best way to generate buzz for an independent author is through reviews on key sites. Amazon is great, but so is anything that works: Smashwords, GoodReads, sites dedicated to independent authors, even threads here are better than nothing.

Regards
Caleb

elcreative · 01-15-2011, 01:14 PM

Whoops... sorry, forgot that one... it was nearly 2.30am when I replied but definitely before you get to my list of things to do... editing and proofing, not the same thing but both need doing...

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryT

Have your book professionally edited. Poor (or, more often, non-existent) editing is the single worst fault of the overwhelming majority of independently-published books. It costs money, but it's money that you can't afford not to spend.

Worldwalker · 01-15-2011, 08:50 PM

One thing about proofreading that I can never stress enough: have your book proofed by someone who has never read it before. If they've read it before, they'll see what they thought they saw the last time. If they're you, you'll see what you thought you wrote, not what you really wrote (as some of my forum posts have demonstrated to my chagrin).

Editing is a whole different thing. That, your friend or your spouse or your buddy at work can't do. You need a pro for that one, and the use of said pro is the difference between a book that has a real chance and a book that looks like 99% of the vanity press dreck out there.

randyflycaster · 01-16-2011, 09:45 AM

I learned from my mistakes. I suggest using two proofreaders, then, after your book is proofread, go over it at least one more time by yourself. I find using my ereader makes it easier for me to read my own work.

I also suggest a joining a book giveaway program.

DavidRM · 01-16-2011, 12:24 PM

Learn to edit your own work.

Listen to your first readers, but know that it's up to you what finally goes out the door.

Be excited about your work--because at the beginning almost no one else will be. ;-)

-David

HarryT · 01-16-2011, 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DavidRM

Learn to edit your own work.

Sorry to disagree, David, but it's virtually impossible to edit your own work; almost nobodycan look objectively at something they've written yourself. That's why it's so important to use a professional editor.

DavidRM · 01-16-2011, 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryT

Sorry to disagree, David, but it's virtually impossible to edit your own work; almost nobodycan look objectively at something they've written yourself. That's why it's so important to use a professional editor.

So...it's OK for painters to sign their name to a finished work without having a professional painting retoucher give it a few extra brushstrokes...its OK for a sculptor to step back and declare their work "Fin!" without having another guy with a chisel poke at the rock...it's OK for a quilter to piece, back, quilt and bind without being made to rip it apart by the local Quilt Fixerupper who dislikes the color mauve...but writers *MUST* hand off their work to someone else and let them have a go at it before it's done?

Heh.

We'll just have to disagree.

-David

ficbot · 01-16-2011, 06:50 PM

Set up a Google Alert on yourself. That way, you'll know when someone is reviewing or discussing your book. And for goodness sake, don't make it too hard for the bloggers to find you. I can't even count how many authors I have tried to contact about a review or write-up who just didn't have any contact info or website or Facebook page or anything. Don't make it hard. Make it easy. Take the time to write a good profile on your Smashwords page with all the info people will need.

Worldwalker · 01-16-2011, 08:36 PM

Well, David, look at it this way: There are people selling thousands upon thousands of books a year with fancy publishing contracts, and there are people selling a handful through vanity presses. One of those two makes use of editors, and one doesn't. I'll leave you to guess which is which.

Aside from whether or not writing for publication is an art or a craft (I've never been satisfied with a dividing line between them anyway), if a painter, sculptor, or quilter tried to sell their work to a mass market without asking anyone's input (especially that of another expert) they'd do about as well as the authors of un-edited books. Doctors get second opinions. Engineers get other engineers to sign off on their plans. Programmers have whole QA departments. Authors are no different; someone else can always see the things you can't, and that perspective makes all the difference in the world.

DavidRM · 01-16-2011, 10:34 PM

I did not say "don't edit your book". I said, "Learn to edit yourself." Editing yourself is *not* the same as "not editing".

Also, "editing" is not "story fixing".

Editing isn't magic, and won't turn a pile of crap text into a great story. If a writer doesn't learn to recognize when he's writing crap, no amount of editing (his own or someone else's) will make any difference. Once a writer *does* learn to recognize when he's writing crap, he can take steps to solve the problem. Then all he needs an editor for is fixing his typos and moving his commas around. Which he can probably learn to do on his own.

The whole idea that writers cannot possibly see what's wrong with their work is ludicrous on the face of it. No other collection of artists or craftsmen would put up with the level of interference in their work that writers are assumed to need and expected to willingly subject themselves to. Except maybe Hollywood filmmakers.

Every artist has to learn how to do this, regardless of their medium. They have to be able to step back and view what they're doing or have just done, and judge it. Maybe add something. Maybe take something away. Maybe move B before A. Repeat until finished. Then move on to the next work and do it all again, hopefully better this time.

-David

Worldwalker · 01-16-2011, 11:40 PM

Why is it, then, that pretty much every professional writer out there is incompetent? Why do these incompetents not only thank but praise their editors? Why aren't the books by the self-edited, seeing as they're so good, prominent on the bestseller lists and eagerly sought after by both the public and the publishers?

Professional editing won't turn a pile of crap into a good story. But neither will doing it yourself. Having it reviewed by someone who knows the genre, knows the market, and has isn't so close to the story, can make a good story better. That's why the pros do it that way. They seem to think they know what they're doing, and judging by their sales numbers (and income levels) they're probably right.

Lemurion · 01-17-2011, 02:21 PM

As others have said, editing and proofing come at the top of the list. Both are absolutely vital.

While it's certainly possible to edit one's own work, it's much harder than editing someone else's and not all writers have the necessary skills. In many cases it would be better for an indie author to find a peer and exchange edits on each other's work just to get that all-important set of fresh eyes, rather than do it all themselves.

It's also important, at least in my eyes, to understand what an editor does. Editors don't simply go in and make changes willy-nilly. A good editor reads the novel, asks questions and makes suggestions. They're a sounding board who can let the author know if the message a passage gives the reader is the one the author intended. They can let the author know which sections are pulling their weight and which aren't.

It's not simply making changes.

01-14-2011, 06:42 PM	#1
TwoKindsofColor Enthusiast Posts: 33 Karma: 50000 Join Date: Jan 2011 Device: Kindle	What Advice Can You Give Independent Authors? The biggest complaints that come from Indie Authors, is their hard time connecting with readers. What advice can you give us? Always best regards, Deborah Kennedy Last edited by TwoKindsofColor; 01-14-2011 at 07:01 PM.

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01-14-2011, 09:28 PM	#2
elcreative Wizard Posts: 2,888 Karma: 5875940 Join Date: Dec 2007 Device: PRS505, 600, 350, 650, Nexus 7, Note III, iPad 4 etc	Get publicity... an unknown book is not a sale, doesn't matter how good it is, if I don't know it exists then I'll never find out... Get it reviewed on review sites (means giving copies away), try and get it reviewed in the press (even local papers can help), enter writing competitions especially those in national newspapers, start your own website/blog, some people use Facebook for PR... be prepared to wait...

01-15-2011, 01:15 AM	#3
HarryT eBook Enthusiast Posts: 85,544 Karma: 93383043 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: UK Device: Kindle Oasis 2, iPad Pro 10.5", iPhone 6	Have your book professionally edited. Poor (or, more often, non-existent) editing is the single worst fault of the overwhelming majority of independently-published books. It costs money, but it's money that you can't afford not to spend.

01-15-2011, 02:16 AM	#4
caleb72 Indie Advocate Posts: 2,863 Karma: 18794463 Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Melbourne, Australia Device: Kindle	I agree With HarryT. Editing and proof-reading I've already noticed is a big problem. Find someone that you really trust to read your work for you before you go "live". Not easy I know, but misused words, blatant grammar issues and typos can really reduce the appreciation of a book when used to professionally edited works. Where do you find these people? Probably wouldn't hurt to start right here. You may need to negotiate a little informal payment, or maybe not depending on the person - but I think you're shooting yourself in the foot if you think that your work can survive without 3rd party proof-reading at least. Next comes the marketing and I think that the best way to generate buzz for an independent author is through reviews on key sites. Amazon is great, but so is anything that works: Smashwords, GoodReads, sites dedicated to independent authors, even threads here are better than nothing. Regards Caleb

01-15-2011, 08:50 PM	#6
Worldwalker Curmudgeon Posts: 3,085 Karma: 722357 Join Date: Feb 2010 Device: PRS-505	One thing about proofreading that I can never stress enough: have your book proofed by someone who has never read it before. If they've read it before, they'll see what they thought they saw the last time. If they're you, you'll see what you thought you wrote, not what you really wrote (as some of my forum posts have demonstrated to my chagrin). Editing is a whole different thing. That, your friend or your spouse or your buddy at work can't do. You need a pro for that one, and the use of said pro is the difference between a book that has a real chance and a book that looks like 99% of the vanity press dreck out there.

01-16-2011, 09:45 AM	#7
randyflycaster Zealot Posts: 113 Karma: 1000858 Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: New York City Device: Sony 350	I learned from my mistakes. I suggest using two proofreaders, then, after your book is proofread, go over it at least one more time by yourself. I find using my ereader makes it easier for me to read my own work. I also suggest a joining a book giveaway program.

01-16-2011, 12:24 PM	#8
DavidRM Addict Posts: 203 Karma: 1007768 Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Tulsa, Oklahoma Device: Kindle	Learn to edit your own work. Listen to your first readers, but know that it's up to you what finally goes out the door. Be excited about your work--because at the beginning almost no one else will be. ;-) -David

01-16-2011, 06:50 PM	#11
ficbot Wizard Posts: 2,409 Karma: 4132096 Join Date: Sep 2008 Device: Kindle Paperwhite/iOS Kindle App	Set up a Google Alert on yourself. That way, you'll know when someone is reviewing or discussing your book. And for goodness sake, don't make it too hard for the bloggers to find you. I can't even count how many authors I have tried to contact about a review or write-up who just didn't have any contact info or website or Facebook page or anything. Don't make it hard. Make it easy. Take the time to write a good profile on your Smashwords page with all the info people will need.

01-16-2011, 08:36 PM	#12
Worldwalker Curmudgeon Posts: 3,085 Karma: 722357 Join Date: Feb 2010 Device: PRS-505	Well, David, look at it this way: There are people selling thousands upon thousands of books a year with fancy publishing contracts, and there are people selling a handful through vanity presses. One of those two makes use of editors, and one doesn't. I'll leave you to guess which is which. Aside from whether or not writing for publication is an art or a craft (I've never been satisfied with a dividing line between them anyway), if a painter, sculptor, or quilter tried to sell their work to a mass market without asking anyone's input (especially that of another expert) they'd do about as well as the authors of un-edited books. Doctors get second opinions. Engineers get other engineers to sign off on their plans. Programmers have whole QA departments. Authors are no different; someone else can always see the things you can't, and that perspective makes all the difference in the world.

01-16-2011, 10:34 PM	#13
DavidRM Addict Posts: 203 Karma: 1007768 Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Tulsa, Oklahoma Device: Kindle	I did not say "don't edit your book". I said, "Learn to edit yourself." Editing yourself is not the same as "not editing". Also, "editing" is not "story fixing". Editing isn't magic, and won't turn a pile of crap text into a great story. If a writer doesn't learn to recognize when he's writing crap, no amount of editing (his own or someone else's) will make any difference. Once a writer does learn to recognize when he's writing crap, he can take steps to solve the problem. Then all he needs an editor for is fixing his typos and moving his commas around. Which he can probably learn to do on his own. The whole idea that writers cannot possibly see what's wrong with their work is ludicrous on the face of it. No other collection of artists or craftsmen would put up with the level of interference in their work that writers are assumed to need and expected to willingly subject themselves to. Except maybe Hollywood filmmakers. Every artist has to learn how to do this, regardless of their medium. They have to be able to step back and view what they're doing or have just done, and judge it. Maybe add something. Maybe take something away. Maybe move B before A. Repeat until finished. Then move on to the next work and do it all again, hopefully better this time. -David

01-16-2011, 11:40 PM	#14
Worldwalker Curmudgeon Posts: 3,085 Karma: 722357 Join Date: Feb 2010 Device: PRS-505	Why is it, then, that pretty much every professional writer out there is incompetent? Why do these incompetents not only thank but praise their editors? Why aren't the books by the self-edited, seeing as they're so good, prominent on the bestseller lists and eagerly sought after by both the public and the publishers? Professional editing won't turn a pile of crap into a good story. But neither will doing it yourself. Having it reviewed by someone who knows the genre, knows the market, and has isn't so close to the story, can make a good story better. That's why the pros do it that way. They seem to think they know what they're doing, and judging by their sales numbers (and income levels) they're probably right.

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01-17-2011, 02:21 PM	#15
Lemurion eReader Posts: 2,750 Karma: 4968470 Join Date: Aug 2007 Device: Note 5; PW3; Nook HD+; ChuWi Hi12; iPad	As others have said, editing and proofing come at the top of the list. Both are absolutely vital. While it's certainly possible to edit one's own work, it's much harder than editing someone else's and not all writers have the necessary skills. In many cases it would be better for an indie author to find a peer and exchange edits on each other's work just to get that all-important set of fresh eyes, rather than do it all themselves. It's also important, at least in my eyes, to understand what an editor does. Editors don't simply go in and make changes willy-nilly. A good editor reads the novel, asks questions and makes suggestions. They're a sounding board who can let the author know if the message a passage gives the reader is the one the author intended. They can let the author know which sections are pulling their weight and which aren't. It's not simply making changes.