Publishing practices that drive me crazy - Page 2

ps67 · 11-02-2021, 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

All typographic practices are silly to someone.

The practice being discussed has been around forever in print. A golden age of perfect (let alone consistent) typography never existed in print, and none will ever exist in ebooks, either. We can either pointlessly dwell on it, or we can just read the book (like we did with print). I choose the latter. YMMV.

I wish I could do it, I know that the vast majority of those who buy ebooks just read them but I can't. I see the spaces between the paragraphs and they disturb me, I see that there is no hyphenation and I want it. I see the indentation too small (11pt for example) and I need it bigger (at least 1.2em, even 1.5em). And I could go on with the ligatures that are not in Kepubs and then I use Koreader if there are notes or images in the book and so on.

I would better spend my time reading, but at least there is an advantage, at 50 I learned some basic concepts of css/html and learning new things is always a nice thing.

DiapDealer · 11-02-2021, 06:31 PM

I've encountered spaces between paragraphs in print quite a few times. With and without first line indents. Before I got rid of my bookshelves, I pulled down several examples of many "you didn't see crap like this in print" diatribes from Mobileread. That's why I always say the golden age of consistent print typesetting many people "remember" is a myth. There never has been a "standard."

Ragged right, space between paragraphs (every para, not just scene-breaks), huge first-line indents--it all happened in print and people lived with it.

DNSB · 11-02-2021, 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

That's why I always say the golden age of consistent print typesetting many people "remember" is a myth. There never has been a "standard."

But at least everyone who bought the same edition of the print book got the same typesetting. Compare to the same edition on multiple ereaders where the page display is, at best, rather variable.

ps67 · 11-02-2021, 07:00 PM

I don't think there was ever a golden age of typography either. Before buying the Kindle in 2017 I was only reading paper books. Sometimes I was positively impressed by the typography of a book, sometimes I didn't like it at all but mostly I didn't even notice it. And anyway: I knew I couldn't change anything.

It started with hyphenation (Amazon's advanced typography): a book with advanced typography was without it and on the 6" screen of the Kindle it bothered me. I went crazy at first, then I realized I had to learn a little of css. And then I started noticing other things...

But I don't want to transform my preferences into rules for everybody. They will continue to produce "terrible"

ebooks and I will continue to modify them before reading...

DiapDealer · 11-02-2021, 07:01 PM

That's fair.

ownedbycats · 11-02-2021, 07:09 PM

You can get the intended typesetting with PDF files that have embedded fonts, but that seems like a hassle.

ZodWallop · 11-02-2021, 11:24 PM

Lots of little things bug me and I do edit my books..

Anyway, to add one thing in particular that seems extra stupid: setting the body text to font size: small. What lunatic is in charge of formatting? I've seen this in books from the Big Six (Big Five? whatever).

Sarmat89 · 11-03-2021, 01:37 AM

HTML was made for manuals, not books, that's why is doesn't indent paragraphs and adds spaces between them.

JSWolf · 11-03-2021, 07:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quoth

It's very little cost. Especially if you do MSS -> ebook, Edit MSS styles & format -> PDF

It's not that much effort to reformat once the eBook is done. I do it a lot. Once you know what you are doing, it does not take all that long.

JSWolf · 11-03-2021, 07:40 AM

The majority of pBooks I've read have indents, no paragraph space, justified, hyphenated, and a serif font. So that's the sort of look most are expecting.

DiapDealer · 11-03-2021, 08:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSWolf

The majority of pBooks I've read have indents, no paragraph space, justified, hyphenated, and a serif font. So that's the sort of look most are expecting.

Yes. Because, of course, you're entirely representative of the expectations of "most". Talk about a non sequitur.

Mel · 11-03-2021, 08:42 AM

The thing that drives me crazy is when they bundle books together and then create a faux boxed set cover. Which defeats the whole purpose of a cover because they've angled the graphic so you can't read it.

Quoth · 11-03-2021, 09:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sarmat89

HTML was made for manuals, not books, that's why is doesn't indent paragraphs and adds spaces between them.

Purely depends on the CSS.

JSWolf · 11-03-2021, 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mel

The thing that drives me crazy is when they bundle books together and then create a faux boxed set cover. Which defeats the whole purpose of a cover because they've angled the graphic so you can't read it.

Speaking of "box sets", I rather dislike it when the formatting is different between books in the set.

JSWolf · 11-03-2021, 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sarmat89

HTML was made for manuals, not books, that's why is doesn't indent paragraphs and adds spaces between them.

That's the default with no CSS. But CSS was made to be able to change the default style. So you can have indents and no paragraph spaces.

11-02-2021, 06:31 PM	#17
DiapDealer Grand Sorcerer Posts: 27,549 Karma: 193191846 Join Date: Jan 2010 Device: Nexus 7, Kindle Fire HD	I've encountered spaces between paragraphs in print quite a few times. With and without first line indents. Before I got rid of my bookshelves, I pulled down several examples of many "you didn't see crap like this in print" diatribes from Mobileread. That's why I always say the golden age of consistent print typesetting many people "remember" is a myth. There never has been a "standard." Ragged right, space between paragraphs (every para, not just scene-breaks), huge first-line indents--it all happened in print and people lived with it. Last edited by DiapDealer; 11-02-2021 at 06:35 PM.

11-02-2021, 07:00 PM	#19
ps67 Guru Posts: 731 Karma: 7000000 Join Date: Aug 2017 Location: Italy Device: Kindle Paperwhite, Kobo Elipsa, Pocketbook Color PB633, Inkpad Color	I don't think there was ever a golden age of typography either. Before buying the Kindle in 2017 I was only reading paper books. Sometimes I was positively impressed by the typography of a book, sometimes I didn't like it at all but mostly I didn't even notice it. And anyway: I knew I couldn't change anything. It started with hyphenation (Amazon's advanced typography): a book with advanced typography was without it and on the 6" screen of the Kindle it bothered me. I went crazy at first, then I realized I had to learn a little of css. And then I started noticing other things... But I don't want to transform my preferences into rules for everybody. They will continue to produce "terrible" ebooks and I will continue to modify them before reading... Last edited by ps67; 11-02-2021 at 07:07 PM.

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11-02-2021, 07:01 PM	#20
DiapDealer Grand Sorcerer Posts: 27,549 Karma: 193191846 Join Date: Jan 2010 Device: Nexus 7, Kindle Fire HD	That's fair.

11-02-2021, 07:09 PM	#21
ownedbycats Custom User Title Posts: 8,618 Karma: 61176603 Join Date: Oct 2018 Location: Canada Device: Kobo Libra H2O, formerly Aura HD	You can get the intended typesetting with PDF files that have embedded fonts, but that seems like a hassle.

11-02-2021, 11:24 PM	#22
ZodWallop Gentleman and scholar Posts: 10,989 Karma: 108312789 Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: Space City, Texas Device: Clara HD; Nook ST w/Glowlight, (2015) Glowlight Plus, Paperwhite 3	Lots of little things bug me and I do edit my books.. Anyway, to add one thing in particular that seems extra stupid: setting the body text to font size: small. What lunatic is in charge of formatting? I've seen this in books from the Big Six (Big Five? whatever).

11-03-2021, 01:37 AM	#23
Sarmat89 Evangelist Posts: 482 Karma: 2267928 Join Date: Nov 2015 Device: none	HTML was made for manuals, not books, that's why is doesn't indent paragraphs and adds spaces between them.

11-03-2021, 07:40 AM	#25
JSWolf Resident Curmudgeon Posts: 73,970 Karma: 128903378 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Roslindale, Massachusetts Device: Kobo Libra 2, Kobo Aura H2O, PRS-650, PRS-T1, nook STR, PW3	The majority of pBooks I've read have indents, no paragraph space, justified, hyphenated, and a serif font. So that's the sort of look most are expecting.

11-03-2021, 08:42 AM	#27
Mel Connoisseur Posts: 51 Karma: 6570782 Join Date: Aug 2007 Device: Android tablet	The thing that drives me crazy is when they bundle books together and then create a faux boxed set cover. Which defeats the whole purpose of a cover because they've angled the graphic so you can't read it.

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