Amazon removed books from my Kindle

[Sirtel]

Originally Posted by odamizu

And if you already use a non-Kindle device, why are complaining about Amazon/Kindle in the Kindle forum? Are you hoping to get other Kindle users to join you? Are you hoping Amazon will read your complaints and change their practices? Why not just walk away from Amazon/Kindle and be done with it?

Because I like to whine.

Is complaining now forbidden unless you're a registered owner of said device or what? I'm a former Kindle user and it's not impossible I might get a Kindle again some day. So I want to keep current with what is going on in the Kindle world.

You have a right to express your opinion that it's ok for Amazon to delete books unasked. And I have a right to express my opinion that it's not ok.

[slm]

Originally Posted by Sirtel

Because I like to whine.

That applies with much more force to certain others who will remain nameless.

[haertig]

Originally Posted by odamizu

And if you already use a non-Kindle device, why are complaining about Amazon/Kindle in the Kindle forum?

Sometimes the best advice comes from someone who was smart enough to recognize issues and not buy the device in question in the first place.

I sometimes read things in the Kobo forum and I don't have a Kobo. That is because I realize that my current Kindle will not last forever and eventually I will need to buy another device. And it helps if I know at least a little something about the Kindle world, the Kobo world, the Nook world, etc. This is going to make things easier for me to decide which eReader I may buy next, when the time comes.

I don't think owning a Kindle is a prerequisite to having an opinion or useful insight into Amazon removing books from eReaders. It's quite the redirect to cast aspersions like "You don't get to comment because you don't own a Kindle!" That's pretty short sighted.

[jlinear]

Originally Posted by odamizu

And if you already use a non-Kindle device, why are complaining about Amazon/Kindle in the Kindle forum? Are you hoping to get other Kindle users to join you? Are you hoping Amazon will read your complaints and change their practices? Why not just walk away from Amazon/Kindle and be done with it?

Perhaps you didn’t notice but I own a Kindle Paperwhite. And if I want to complain about it in a thread about Amazon removing books unexpectedly, what’s it to you?

[Aleron Ives]

Originally Posted by Sirtel

I certainly don't agree that deleting content automatically, without any input from the user, is somehow ok, no matter the intention.

It's my understanding that if you delete an Amazon book from one Kindle, a sync is supposed to delete that book from every other Kindle on your account, without asking you. Do you think this should not be the case?

[odamizu]

Originally Posted by Sirtel

Why do you think they are necessarily Kindle store books? They may be public domain or otherwise DRM-free ebooks converted to AZW3 with Calibre.

Fair point.

Originally Posted by Sirtel

Because I like to whine.

Is complaining now forbidden unless you're a registered owner of said device or what? I'm a former Kindle user and it's not impossible I might get a Kindle again some day. So I want to keep current with what is going on in the Kindle world.

You have a right to express your opinion that it's ok for Amazon to delete books unasked. And I have a right to express my opinion that it's not ok.

Of course you don't have to be a registered Kindle owner to complain, and of course non-Kindle owners may have an interest in Kindle topics.

I was just wondering the purpose of the complaining. As I wrote: "Are you hoping to get other Kindle users to join you? Are you hoping Amazon will read your complaints and change their practices? Why not just walk away from Amazon/Kindle and be done with it?"

I see now that your purpose is to vent your dissatisfaction to any who would listen. Peace, Sirtel

Originally Posted by haertig

... I don't think owning a Kindle is a prerequisite to having an opinion or useful insight into Amazon removing books from eReaders. It's quite the redirect to cast aspersions like "You don't get to comment because you don't own a Kindle!" That's pretty short sighted.

Please see my above response to Sirtel. Also, I never said, "You don't get to comment because you don't own Kindle!" Those are your words, not mine.

Originally Posted by jlinear

Perhaps you didn’t notice but I own a Kindle Paperwhite. And if I want to complain about it in a thread about Amazon removing books unexpectedly, what’s it to you?

Yes, I did notice you own a Paperwhite. I should have been more specific in my response. As for "what's it to you?" see my above response to Sirtel.

Originally Posted by Aleron Ives

It's my understanding that if you delete an Amazon book from one Kindle, a sync is supposed to delete that book from every other Kindle on your account, without asking you. Do you think this should not be the case?

To clarify: If I delete an ebook (Kindle-purchased or personal document) from my Kindle Content Library, it gets deleted from all devices. But if I simply delete it from one device (i.e., "remove download" or "archive"), nothing will change on my other devices.

Peace to all,

~ oda

[Sirtel]

Originally Posted by Aleron Ives

It's my understanding that if you delete an Amazon book from one Kindle, a sync is supposed to delete that book from every other Kindle on your account, without asking you. Do you think this should not be the case?

No, that's not the case. Kindles can have different books on them. And you can send both a purchased Kindle book or a non-Amazon book (via Send to Kindle) to one Kindle, but not to others (they will be available for downloading to all your Kindles, of course).

Only if you delete a book from your account altogether, it will be deleted from all your Kindles. If you delete it from one Kindle, it will stay on others it was downloaded to.

[Aleron Ives]

Originally Posted by Sirtel

No, that's not the case.

Thank you both for the correction.

Originally Posted by Sirtel

Only if you delete a book from your account altogether, it will be deleted from all your Kindles.

If you give a sideloaded book the EBOK tag, how is Amazon supposed to know that this book is not a book that you've deleted from your account and thus should be deleted from the device upon sync? That seems like an unreasonable expectation to me if the book is using the very piece of metadata that Amazon uses to make this determination, instead of the PDOC tag that, presumably, exists in part to prevent this exact problem.

[Sirtel]

Originally Posted by Aleron Ives

If you give a sideloaded book the EBOK tag, how is Amazon supposed to know that this book is not a book that you've deleted from your account and thus should be deleted from the device upon sync? That seems like an unreasonable expectation to me if the book is using the very piece of metadata that Amazon uses to make this determination, instead of the PDOC tag that, presumably, exists in part to prevent this exact problem.

That's exactly it. Amazon should not delete a book UNLESS the user has, in fact, deleted it from their account. And yes, they managed to do it this way (keeping track of actual user deletions) just fine since the first Kindle in 2007. Only recently they apparently automated something and now we have this mess as the result.

How do other retailers do it with their devices? Does Kobo delete all my sideloaded kepubs when I sync my Kobo device, because kepubs should mean books purchased from Kobo and they don't exist on my Kobo account? Nope. Kobo keeps track of what I actually delete and doesn't play guessing games. And Amazon did the same until recently.

[Aleron Ives]

Is there some critical benefit to the EBOK tag that makes the use of the PDOC tag undesirable, beyond the fact that Calibre sets the EBOK tag by default? It's anybody's guess as to whether Amazon made a deliberate change to punish people for forging the EBOK tag on sideloaded books, or whether this is some kind of bug or side effect from some other change on Amazon's end.

[Sirtel]

Originally Posted by Aleron Ives

Is there some critical benefit to the EBOK tag that makes the use of the PDOC tag undesirable, beyond the fact that Calibre sets the EBOK tag by default? It's anybody's guess as to whether Amazon made a deliberate change to punish people for forging the EBOK tag on sideloaded books, or whether this is some kind of bug or side effect from some other change on Amazon's end.

A decade ago or so sideloaded books with the PDOC tag didn't have covers on a Kindle device. I think that was when the decision to automatically set the EBOK tag while converting was made. Whether this is still true or not I don't know and as I no longer have a modern Kindle I can't check.

[Sarmat89]

Originally Posted by DNSB

If I sideload a PD book to an Amazon device, you are claiming that Amazon now owns that content.

The contents of the device memory is the property of Amazon which rents its free space to you under the license agreement you've signed when you activated the device. There is no obligation from Amazon to provide you that free space to use for file storage forever. It can modify its property as it sees fit.

[Sirtel]

Originally Posted by Sarmat89

The contents of the device memory is the property of Amazon which rents its free space to you under the license agreement you've signed when you activated the device. There is no obligation from Amazon to provide you that free space to use for file storage forever. It can modify its property as it sees fit.

You're claiming that Amazon owns all the ebooks it sells. That's not true. In most cases Amazon just sells the books published by others, like any other bookseller. Are you claiming that bookstores own the content of all the books in their store?

[Quoth]

Originally Posted by Sarmat89

The contents of the device memory is the property of Amazon which rents its free space to you under the license agreement you've signed when you activated the device. There is no obligation from Amazon to provide you that free space to use for file storage forever. It can modify its property as it sees fit.

That's loads of nonsense. And only KU titles are are rented. Amazon doesn't own them either.

The KDP Select terms give Amazon exclusivity on selling and renting, but they don't own those.

The actual storage space of a Kindle or Kindle App isn't Amazon's either. They only own the space on their own servers and no-one needs to use that.

[JSWolf]

There is a new Kindle issue with at least the PW6. So we can have a new thread.

Amazon Removed Download & Transfer from my Kindle