Maggie Stiefvater writes of her experience with piracy

[MikeB1972]

Originally Posted by darryl

Mike. What you are quoting there is my comments. I linked to Konrath's comments and then made comments of my own. I'm not sure if you noticed the link above my comments. I'm going to edit the post to make the link stand out more.

I don't think Konrath has changed his stance at all. He simply added a proviso. This is an extract from the link to his blog:

Ah, right, my bad, I thought you'd helpfully summarised the linked thread.
Err, so you've linked to a blog that doesn't agree with what you've commented? A bold move

I still take exception at the "and reasonably priced" clause though. If it's overpriced get something else.

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by MikeB1972

I still take exception at the "and reasonably priced" clause though. If it's overpriced get something else.

I don't disagree in principle. But when looking for reasons for piracy, a steep increase in price from one installment to the next is surely relevant, no? I don't think anyone (other than pirates themselves) consider price to be a justification.

[darryl]

Originally Posted by MikeB1972

Ah, right, my bad, I thought you'd helpfully summarised the linked thread.
Err, so you've linked to a blog that doesn't agree with what you've commented? A bold move

I still take exception at the "and reasonably priced" clause though. If it's overpriced get something else.

Mike. I added a little more to that post. I don't think my own comments are substantially different to Konrath's. I just think the author here made two mistakes, releasing the earc and pricing too high. In these circumstances it would in my view be ludicrous to claim that she has not lost sales to piracy.

[MikeB1972]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

I don't disagree in principle. But when looking for reasons for piracy, a steep increase in price from one installment to the next is surely relevant, no? I don't think anyone (other than pirates themselves) consider price to be a justification.

Relevant yes, it just seems to match the reasons for shoplifting and burglary to me.
Also, was it a steep increase in price or is the comparison between hardback and paperback release ebook pricing? The only reference I can find is that new books cost more, doesn't mention if they are out in paperback yet.

Originally Posted by darryl

Mike. I added a little more to that post. I don't think my own comments are substantially different to Konrath's. I just think the author here made two mistakes, releasing the earc and pricing too high. In these circumstances it would in my view be ludicrous to claim that she has not lost sales to piracy.

I think we mostly agree to be honest darryl

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by MikeB1972

Relevant yes, it just seems to match the reasons for shoplifting and burglary to me.
Also, was it a steep increase in price or is the comparison between hardback and paperback release ebook pricing? The only reference I can find is that new books cost more, doesn't mention if they are out in paperback yet.

I freely admit I was only basing that on this anecdotal evidence:

Originally Posted by gweeks

Didn't the price jump from $6 to $12 for the ebook between the 2nd and 3d book?

Greg

But regardless, I think it's a mistake to conflate reasons/factors with justification.

Agreeing/Not agreeing with an "it costs too much, so I'm going to steal it" mindset isn't all that relevant to a discussion about whether or not price is a factor in people deciding to pirate books.

[ZodWallop]

Originally Posted by MikeB1972

Which is fair enough, sort of, and Konrath knows what he's talking about, however, I'm still not happy with the "If it costs more than I like I'm going to nick it" argument.

The problem with this position is that a bunch of us on our moral high horses tut-tutting the practice will do nothing to stop piracy. But making the product available at a reasonable price as dictated by the market will.

The RIAA lawsuits didn't squash MP3 piracy. But Apple selling songs for $0.99 did.

[MikeB1972]

Originally Posted by ZodWallop

The problem with this position is that a bunch of us on our moral high horses tut-tutting the practice will do nothing to stop piracy. But making the product available at a reasonable price as dictated by the market will.

The RIAA lawsuits didn't squash MP3 piracy. But Apple selling songs for $0.99 did.

If the market was just pay or don't get it I'd agree, but when you add a third option of get it for nothing it's hard to compete. Some peoples reasonable price will always be free and some will be less than the people selling it want to sell it for.
Given the choice between a moral high-horse and bowing down to, what is essentially, a form of extortion I'll stick to the tut-tutting.

If you think MP3 piracy was squashed by Apple, I've got some bad news for you. I just had a quick google and the usual suspects against piracy don't agree with you that mp3 piracy has ended.

[ZodWallop]

Originally Posted by MikeB1972

If the market was just pay or don't get it I'd agree, but when you add a third option of get it for nothing it's hard to compete. Some peoples reasonable price will always be free and some will be less than the people selling it want to sell it for.
Given the choice between a moral high-horse and bowing down to, what is essentially, a form of extortion I'll stick to the tut-tutting.

If you think MP3 piracy was squashed by Apple, I've got some bad news for you. I just had a quick google and the usual suspects against piracy don't agree with you that mp3 piracy has ended.

MP3 piracy hasn't ended. But it's not what it used to be either.

Some people will always pay, regardless of the price. Some people will never pay, regardless of the price. But if you think 100% of e-book readers fall only into one of those two camps, you are fooling yourself.

Using myself as an example, I mainly buy indie books anymore. But when a BPH title goes on sale for $2.99 or so, I'll snag it. At that price, I will buy a title I already have in paper. At $12.99, I won't.

[tahastudio]

Originally Posted by gweeks

Didn't the price jump from $6 to $12 for the ebook between the 2nd and 3d book?

Greg

That, I was not aware of. I got the third book from the library, since the second book wasn't too impressive, just to see if I should buy it. But if that's the case, that would explain why the ebook sales plummeted.

It seems like a lot of information was not mentioned in her experiment, whether intentional or not. I think it's safe to say the results can be largely ignored.

Sent from my D6633 using Tapatalk

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by ZodWallop

Some people will always pay, regardless of the price. Some people will never pay, regardless of the price. But if you think 100% of e-book readers fall only into one of those two camps, you are fooling yourself.

Heck, I don't even think a simple majority of ebook readers would fall only into one of those two camps.

[MikeB1972]

Originally Posted by ZodWallop

MP3 piracy hasn't ended. But it's not what it used to be either.

Some people will always pay, regardless of the price. Some people will never pay, regardless of the price. But if you think 100% of e-book readers fall only into one of those two camps, you are fooling yourself.

Using myself as an example, I mainly buy indie books anymore. But when a BPH title goes on sale for $2.99 or so, I'll snag it. At that price, I will buy a title I already have in paper. At $12.99, I won't.

Oh, I'd agree but how many of the ones who'd never pay are the ones saying they are pirating it because it's too expensive?

So you're in the don't buy it camp, no problem, I have a price ceiling myself.
You aren't saying your going to pirate it though.

Like I say, the market can only find a price if the third option of free doesn't exist.

[MikeB1972]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

Heck, I don't even think a simple majority of ebook readers would fall only into one of those two camps.

Well, no, obviously.

3 main camps
1) Buy at whatever
2) Don't buy if price too high
3) Don't buy at any price

Most people sit at 2 quite happily.

[ZodWallop]

Originally Posted by MikeB1972

Like I say, the market can only find a price if the third option of free doesn't exist.

And yet iTunes built an empire.

[Philippe D.]

Not sure iTunes is priced at whatever the market price should be

[haertig]

Originally Posted by ZodWallop

And yet iTunes built an empire.

Which has been growing nicely since they got rid of the DRM. They still sell songs for the same price they used to (99 cents, same as in the old days IIRC), but these days that 99 cents gets you music that is DRM-free, and you can play it on any of your devices. Paradoxically, it appears that the best way to curtail piracy may be to stop trying to curtail it using heavy-handed techniques. And they probably increased profit-per-song as well, since adding DRM imparts a cost to the distribution.

Many/most people consider being able to use something you bought on any of your devices, and to back it up locally, to be "reasonable use". Despite the fact that the law defines this otherwise. DRM takes away this reasonable use. Many here (most?) will strip off DRM and convert eBooks as they see fit to use on their other devices. When a law re-defines reasonable behavior as criminal, then people will simply ignore the law. Same thing for "You didn't buy this, you only licensed it". Again, trying to make reasonable use into something criminal. The word "criminal" being used here for convenience only, I know this is actually a "civil" violation most of the time.

Then people who ignore the law are labeled pirates, regardless if they upload their DRM-stripped books for distribution to freeloaders or not. I imagine that many/most here do not redistribute eBooks, but indeed strip DRM for their own private "reasonable use".

Then, a bad thing can happen. Once customers start to feel that they are being taken advantage of (high prices, DRM-restrictions) then they start to rebel. And that rebellion can take on the form of "I'm not going to pay for this, I'm going to a real pirate site and download it for free". This isn't right, which is why I called it a "bad thing", but my point is that it is not an unexpected reaction. It's human nature.

Is it wrong to pirate a book? IMHO, yes. Is it wrong to put onerous DRM on that book and charge high prices? IMHO, yes to this question as well. Of course, two wrongs don't make a right. But an unanswered wrong doesn't make a right either. Apple appears to have gotten this message regarding iTunes (music downloads, at least). They indeed took a risk when they got rid of DRM. But it paid off in spades, as iTunes is doing very well. Even better than before. When you poke someone, realize that you'll probably get poked back. Doesn't matter that poking is ill-advised for either side. It's called "human nature".