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Old 01-18-2020, 09:38 PM   #46
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I will assume that he didn't mention widespread blindness then, verifying my comments re: strawman and clickbait.
Hyperbole and sarcasm
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Old 01-18-2020, 10:22 PM   #47
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No one ever said screens make you blind so where you are getting this I don't know. Backlit screens cause more eye strain and affects your eyesight but you will not go blind
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Old 01-18-2020, 10:37 PM   #48
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No one ever said screens make you blind so where you are getting this I don't know. Backlit screens cause more eye strain and affects your eyesight but you will not go blind
People here FREQUENTLY claim that eInk is healthier for eyes...or the opposite...that devices are unhealthy.

Eye strain is not a health issue. READING anything can cause eye strain. But you stop reading, and your eye remains undamaged.

Time and again we have “science says....” and you look at “the science” and it’s TERRIBLE science. Like the recent one involving rats in cages where 6 sides (all the sides) were bright light for 20 hours a day for months on end.

And the Hisense executive touted unnamed health issues as why his color eInk was better for eye health.

So yes.....my use of blindness was intentionally hyperbolic. Go ahead...name the real world wide pandemic “eye health issue” that has been PAINFULLY OBVIOUS TO SEE (pun intended) because with billions spending hours a day looking at devices....you’d already have massive eye health degradation.

Go ahead. I challenge you. With billions looking at devices for hours a day....show me the eye health pandemic that surely must ALREADY EXIST
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Old 01-18-2020, 10:53 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by leebase View Post
So yes.....my use of blindness was intentionally hyperbolic. Go ahead...name the real world wide pandemic “eye health issue” that has been PAINFULLY OBVIOUS TO SEE (pun intended) because with billions spending hours a day looking at devices....you’d already have massive eye health degradation.

Go ahead. I challenge you. With billions looking at devices for hours a day....show me the eye health pandemic that surely must ALREADY EXIST
The eye health epidemic that exists is myopia and high myopia. Which is not always just an inconvenience and an expense; high myopia can lead to myopic macular degeneration or retinal detachment and blindness.

But this seems to correlate better with lack of outdoor time than it does with specific hours spent on devices, and likely (IMO) has little or nothing to do with device lighting. More rigorous research is needed though on a variety of populations, and the causative chains are controversial. Is it sunlight exposure, long focal length, some combination that is protective? Kids who spend a lot of time indoors in high tech societies are likely on devices a lot of the time, but as I said, more studies are needed on the exact mechanisms.

https://www.nature.com/news/the-myopia-boom-1.17120

http://atlas.iapb.org/vision-trends/myopia/

https://theconversation.com/too-much...-people-111599

http://retinatoday.com/2019/09/myopi...obal-epidemic/

https://www.iapb.org/wp-content/uplo...yopia_2016.pdf

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Old 01-18-2020, 10:54 PM   #50
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If you’re setting the bar that low, we’ve seen an increase in the number of people who need glasses. Sure there could be any number of causes there, but the uptick in using screens more follows that same trend.

Is it definitive evidence? No. But you only asked for eye related health issues which could be related to screen time.

Can we stop bringing up this extremely dead horse of a topic? Y’all couldn’t even make it 10 posts in without sniping at each other for rehashing previously stated views.
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Old 01-19-2020, 12:28 AM   #51
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We've seen an uptick in the number of people who need glasses? Source? Geography? Time span?

As far as I can remember in my decade of being here...this particular take has never been put forward. Not the blindness part...but the billions already spending hours a day looking at their devices. This didn’t start with the iPhone....but even if you only wanted to consider the last 12 years. That’s more than enough time that SIGNIFICANT eye health problems should already be at pandemic stage.

Everywhere western style diet has been taking hold....you can see obesity skyrocketing. Whether it’s the hamburger or the bun is hotly debated. It MIGHT even be a world wide onset of laziness. But you can see that obesity and it’s related diseases are rampant and growing.

All we have for devices damaging eye health is bupkus. It’s people PROJECTING there will be health problems....not people seeing actual increases in eye health problems and then tying those results to device usage.
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Old 01-19-2020, 01:00 AM   #52
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We've seen an uptick in the number of people who need glasses? Source? Geography? Time span?
Did you read the multiple cites I posted?
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Old 01-19-2020, 02:12 AM   #53
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Originally Posted by leebase View Post
We've seen an uptick in the number of people who need glasses? Source? Geography? Time span?

As far as I can remember in my decade of being here...this particular take has never been put forward. Not the blindness part...but the billions already spending hours a day looking at their devices. This didn’t start with the iPhone....but even if you only wanted to consider the last 12 years. That’s more than enough time that SIGNIFICANT eye health problems should already be at pandemic stage.

Everywhere western style diet has been taking hold....you can see obesity skyrocketing. Whether it’s the hamburger or the bun is hotly debated. It MIGHT even be a world wide onset of laziness. But you can see that obesity and it’s related diseases are rampant and growing.

All we have for devices damaging eye health is bupkus. It’s people PROJECTING there will be health problems....not people seeing actual increases in eye health problems and then tying those results to device usage.
https://www.cbs.nl/en-gb/news/2013/3...contact-lenses

This particular take on eink vs LCD/OLED screens, come on now it’s not been six months even since this very topic was split off another thread and we saw spirited debates on the nature of light in a front lit eink device vs a backlit device. And the health issues of each. Evidence of this is in the first few replies.

And the hyperbole certainly doesn’t assist anything. It’s blatant sure, but if you’re trying for an honest discussion it’s just bad form.

Meera has also given you sources
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Old 01-19-2020, 06:55 AM   #54
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All we have for devices damaging eye health is bupkus. It’s people PROJECTING there will be health problems....not people seeing actual increases in eye health problems and then tying those results to device usage.
The uptick in myopia is well established. The steelman version of your argument is that the problem would still exist if people were staring at paper or E Ink all day, but to claim there's no increase in eye issues is patently absurd.
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Old 01-19-2020, 09:12 AM   #55
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Nobody's claimed there's been no increase in eye issues to my knowledge. There's simply been no credible scientific/medical studies definitively linking that increase to staring at screens. Even though (contrary to what some would have you believe), I believe there's more than enough knowledge/data out there for someone to make a definitive, scientific case one way or another.

As already noted, the steady uptick in obesity/diabetes can explain an increase in vision issues without resorting to unproven theories about the nature of light and screen technology.

Claiming one screen technology is "healthier" than another for the average eyeball is simply not a statement that's based in current scientific fact. That's all I've ever tried to say.

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Old 01-19-2020, 01:33 PM   #56
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In fact we could say that e-ink/lcd are both worse than a paper book because they allow bad practices, like reading in the night, which are too difficult to replicate with a real book.

Being exposed to low level conditions could reduce the reactiveness of the cone cells in the long run. Reduced reaction does not mean damage, because it can changed if the environment changes.
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Old 01-19-2020, 01:56 PM   #57
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In fact we could say that e-ink/lcd are both worse than a paper book because they allow bad practices, like reading in the night, which are too difficult to replicate with a real book.
We can also say that the moon being made of cheese has a negative affect on our eye health. Except it doesn’t because it isn’t. People have read at night for generations, since before we had electricity. It’s not overly difficult. And it’s become less and less difficult over the years prior to frontlight ereaders.
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Old 01-19-2020, 02:03 PM   #58
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I can't read books on LCD. I love me E-Ink!

I think the continued existence of e-ink and e-readers is proof that A LOT of readers have the same experience as me.

Unless we're all lying
Why can you watch TV on LCD, read the forum/Internet with LCD and yet you cannot read a book on LCD?
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Old 01-19-2020, 02:07 PM   #59
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The general health problem of obesity is basically because we're all sitting too much staring at these screens
And eating all kinds of crap. A lot of people do not cook healthy meals. They do fast food, eat out a lot where you get large portions, or buy TV Dinners/ready meals. Plus all the sugary drinks and junk food.#

It's not just sitting around as much as we do in front of the computer and/or TV. It's what we eat. We've been eating healthy most of the time. It does make a difference.
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Old 01-19-2020, 02:25 PM   #60
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No you are not lying, you are simply expressing what you like best for YOU.

The problems start when someone comes in and says eink is the ONLY way to read because it won't harm your eyes, whereas, LCD/LED/Color whatever WILL cause harm to your eyes.

That is complete and utter BS, and needs to stop being spread around.

Our eyes change with AGE, this is a fact of life that cannot be ignored, but many will do so due to vanity. Any study they do on someone who has been using computers for years would be inconclusive at best since our eyes deteriorate/change with age. There is no way to prove it is from staring at a screen.

Read on what you like, I prefer my pc monitor over all else. But be willing to accept other peoples choices.

Live & let live!
The problem with LCD as I see it is the brightness level. What I find is a good brightness level for watching video or playing games is not good for reading as it's too bright. So if I read on my phone or iPad, I turn down the brightness. I also turn down the brightness on the laptop/surface when I am not watching video. So IMHO, changing the brightness level is what's needed depending on what you are doing.

As for having enough data, I think we do based on the number of screen out there be it TV, phones, computer, and cars and how long we've had LCD screens available.
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