Multiple Table of Contents

AliceWonder · 08-27-2019, 11:57 PM

If you look at the classic "pulp" magazines from the 20s, 30s, etc. you will find they sometimes had more than one table of contents. Usually on the same page, but they would often have one table of contents for the short stories within and a second table of contents for things like poems and comic strips within.

I can give a link to one on archive.org if necessary.

I am attempting to do the same (I'm creating a pulp-style magazine) and in LaTeX it is easy - just use the tocloft package and you can have as many table of contents as your heart desires. But trying to do it an ePub - works in the readers I tried, but results in a validation error.

What I am using is using a separate html5 nav element for each one, but assigning each one with the attribute epub:type="toc"

Each nav element then has an h1 child with the name of the ToC and an ol child with the links to the content.

But Epubcheck 4.0.2 at https://www.epubconversion.com/epub-validator/ gives the following error:

``RSC-005 (ERROR) Message: Error while parsing file 'Exactly one 'toc' nav element must be present'.''

Given that there is historical precedence for multiple ToC in pulp magazines (and also in academic references where List of Figures and List of Tables are common) I find it hard to believe that ePub doesn't have a way to do this.

What is the proper way?

AliceWonder · 08-28-2019, 12:48 AM

Okay this may not be an issue.

I installed the Calibre plugin for ePubCheck which is a newer version than that linked website has, and it does not complain about the multiple ToC (but interestingly it does complain about font names not matching what is in the font - that never mattered in web browsers but I guess it doesn't hurt to fix)

jhowell · 08-28-2019, 09:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AliceWonder

Okay this may not be an issue.

I installed the Calibre plugin for ePubCheck which is a newer version than that linked website has, and it does not complain about the multiple ToC (but interestingly it does complain about font names not matching what is in the font - that never mattered in web browsers but I guess it doesn't hurt to fix)

The error about font names not matching comes from the calibre editor "Check Book" feature, not from Epubcheck. The most recent version Epubcheck will definitely flag multiple TOCs as an error.

Why not have a single TOC, but divide it into two parts for display?
Edit: That could generate a different error from Epubcheck about items being out of sequence.

Edit: Or as an alternative a TOC that contains everything in order, but is hidden, followed by multiple tables of links that are not marked semantically as TOCs.

KevinH · 08-28-2019, 10:23 AM

One way to do what jhowell proposed is to use the nav landmarks to point to your List of Illustrations, List of Poems, etc and make each of these an html "table of contents".

DiapDealer · 08-28-2019, 12:41 PM

An html toc doesn't have to be defined as a NAV document to be a ToC that a user can use to navigate the epub in question. There are tons of commercial EPUB3 books out there that use the NAV document as a sort of "mini-toc"--complete with a landmark that is a link to a more complex (and navigable) table of contents. Much like KevinH mentioned, each of your landmarks in the NAV could be a link to a more useful html toc. Those additional html tocs just can't be created as NAV documents.

AliceWonder · 08-28-2019, 01:55 PM

Okay I figured out how to actually rub the plugin (doh!)

A screenshot is here: https://librelamp.com/ePubCheck.png

(too big IMHO to embed in post)

The grayed out entry is because it is a magazine for mature audience and that entry isn't safe for people at work.

The not referenced emoji's are just not referenced yet, lots of content still needs to be added. Ignore that error, not what this is about. They'll be referenced as I port LaTeX to HTML5 article structure.

For the multiple tables of content -

The "Submission Fiction" ToC is for user submitted stories - the main focus - which are also stories about consensual BDSM submission - so its a pun.

The "Thoughts and Prayers" ToC title I confess is intended as a poke at evangelical capitalists.

The "Eye of the Beholder" ToC that doesn't yet exist will be for interviews and tasteful glamorous photo shoots.

In the spine the content will be mixed, e.g. a poem and a photo shoot will come between two stories. So multiple ToC makes it easier for the reader looking for something specific to find it. Which is exactly why the classic pulps of yesteryear did it. The pulps are not given enough credit, I love them.

Anyway I suppose I could just remove the epub:type="toc" from all but the first HTML5 nav element.

DiapDealer · 08-28-2019, 02:33 PM

Please stick to the technical epub questions. Political or Religious commentary is not allowed in the public forums, and wouldn't be appropriate in this subforum even if it was. We also don't need to know about the specific content of the ebook (or know why something might be obscured) to be able to help with technical support.

AliceWonder · 08-28-2019, 05:18 PM

Okay I solved the problem -

https://github.com/w3c/publ-epub-revision/issues/1292

JSWolf · 08-29-2019, 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AliceWonder

Okay this may not be an issue.

I installed the Calibre plugin for ePubCheck which is a newer version than that linked website has, and it does not complain about the multiple ToC (but interestingly it does complain about font names not matching what is in the font - that never mattered in web browsers but I guess it doesn't hurt to fix)

That font name error is not actually an epubcheck error. That's from using the built-in Calibre ePub checker.

JSWolf · 08-29-2019, 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jhowell

The error about font names not matching comes from the calibre editor "Check Book" feature, not from Epubcheck. The most recent version Epubcheck will definitely flag multiple TOCs as an error.

epubcheck will not flag multiple ToC if they are internal ToC which is just a list or links. There can only be on NCX ToC and having multiple would be an error.

JSWolf · 08-29-2019, 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

An html toc doesn't have to be defined as a NAV document to be a ToC that a user can use to navigate the epub in question. There are tons of commercial EPUB3 books out there that use the NAV document as a sort of "mini-toc"--complete with a landmark that is a link to a more complex (and navigable) table of contents. Much like KevinH mentioned, each of your landmarks in the NAV could be a link to a more useful html toc. Those additional html tocs just can't be created as NAV documents.

You are forgetting the NCX ToC.

DiapDealer · 08-29-2019, 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSWolf

You are forgetting the NCX ToC.

No. I'm not. You're just shoe-horning it into a topic where it's not relevant.

JSWolf · 08-29-2019, 03:41 PM

And speaking of the NCX ToC, ePub2 renderers will only use the NCX and not the NAV and some ePub 3 renderers will use the NCX if it's there and not the NAV.

So it's best to make sure the NCX TpC is as you need it to be as in most cases, it will be used.

DiapDealer · 08-29-2019, 04:52 PM

More irrelevance to a topic about multiple nav documents. Yay!

JSWolf · 08-29-2019, 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

More irrelevance to a topic about multiple nav documents. Yay!

Not really. The OP may have forgotten that there still needs to be ePub2 fallback .

08-27-2019, 11:57 PM	#1
AliceWonder Connoisseur Posts: 97 Karma: 200000 Join Date: Aug 2019 Device: none	Multiple Table of Contents If you look at the classic "pulp" magazines from the 20s, 30s, etc. you will find they sometimes had more than one table of contents. Usually on the same page, but they would often have one table of contents for the short stories within and a second table of contents for things like poems and comic strips within. I can give a link to one on archive.org if necessary. I am attempting to do the same (I'm creating a pulp-style magazine) and in LaTeX it is easy - just use the tocloft package and you can have as many table of contents as your heart desires. But trying to do it an ePub - works in the readers I tried, but results in a validation error. What I am using is using a separate html5 nav element for each one, but assigning each one with the attribute epub:type="toc" Each nav element then has an h1 child with the name of the ToC and an ol child with the links to the content. But Epubcheck 4.0.2 at https://www.epubconversion.com/epub-validator/ gives the following error: ``RSC-005 (ERROR) Message: Error while parsing file 'Exactly one 'toc' nav element must be present'.'' Given that there is historical precedence for multiple ToC in pulp magazines (and also in academic references where List of Figures and List of Tables are common) I find it hard to believe that ePub doesn't have a way to do this. What is the proper way?

08-28-2019, 01:55 PM	#6
AliceWonder Connoisseur Posts: 97 Karma: 200000 Join Date: Aug 2019 Device: none	Okay I figured out how to actually rub the plugin (doh!) A screenshot is here: https://librelamp.com/ePubCheck.png (too big IMHO to embed in post) The grayed out entry is because it is a magazine for mature audience and that entry isn't safe for people at work. The not referenced emoji's are just not referenced yet, lots of content still needs to be added. Ignore that error, not what this is about. They'll be referenced as I port LaTeX to HTML5 article structure. For the multiple tables of content - The "Submission Fiction" ToC is for user submitted stories - the main focus - which are also stories about consensual BDSM submission - so its a pun. The "Thoughts and Prayers" ToC title I confess is intended as a poke at evangelical capitalists. The "Eye of the Beholder" ToC that doesn't yet exist will be for interviews and tasteful glamorous photo shoots. In the spine the content will be mixed, e.g. a poem and a photo shoot will come between two stories. So multiple ToC makes it easier for the reader looking for something specific to find it. Which is exactly why the classic pulps of yesteryear did it. The pulps are not given enough credit, I love them. Anyway I suppose I could just remove the epub:type="toc" from all but the first HTML5 nav element. Last edited by DiapDealer; 08-28-2019 at 02:40 PM. Reason: Religious commentary and unnecessary specifics removed

08-28-2019, 02:33 PM	#7
DiapDealer Grand Sorcerer Posts: 27,553 Karma: 193191846 Join Date: Jan 2010 Device: Nexus 7, Kindle Fire HD	Please stick to the technical epub questions. Political or Religious commentary is not allowed in the public forums, and wouldn't be appropriate in this subforum even if it was. We also don't need to know about the specific content of the ebook (or know why something might be obscured) to be able to help with technical support. Last edited by DiapDealer; 08-28-2019 at 02:42 PM.

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08-28-2019, 12:48 AM	#2
AliceWonder Connoisseur Posts: 97 Karma: 200000 Join Date: Aug 2019 Device: none	Okay this may not be an issue. I installed the Calibre plugin for ePubCheck which is a newer version than that linked website has, and it does not complain about the multiple ToC (but interestingly it does complain about font names not matching what is in the font - that never mattered in web browsers but I guess it doesn't hurt to fix)

08-28-2019, 10:23 AM	#4
KevinH Sigil Developer Posts: 7,657 Karma: 5433388 Join Date: Nov 2009 Device: many	One way to do what jhowell proposed is to use the nav landmarks to point to your List of Illustrations, List of Poems, etc and make each of these an html "table of contents".

08-28-2019, 12:41 PM	#5
DiapDealer Grand Sorcerer Posts: 27,553 Karma: 193191846 Join Date: Jan 2010 Device: Nexus 7, Kindle Fire HD	An html toc doesn't have to be defined as a NAV document to be a ToC that a user can use to navigate the epub in question. There are tons of commercial EPUB3 books out there that use the NAV document as a sort of "mini-toc"--complete with a landmark that is a link to a more complex (and navigable) table of contents. Much like KevinH mentioned, each of your landmarks in the NAV could be a link to a more useful html toc. Those additional html tocs just can't be created as NAV documents.

08-28-2019, 05:18 PM	#8
AliceWonder Connoisseur Posts: 97 Karma: 200000 Join Date: Aug 2019 Device: none	Okay I solved the problem - https://github.com/w3c/publ-epub-revision/issues/1292

08-29-2019, 03:41 PM	#13
JSWolf Resident Curmudgeon Posts: 74,037 Karma: 129333114 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Roslindale, Massachusetts Device: Kobo Libra 2, Kobo Aura H2O, PRS-650, PRS-T1, nook STR, PW3	And speaking of the NCX ToC, ePub2 renderers will only use the NCX and not the NAV and some ePub 3 renderers will use the NCX if it's there and not the NAV. So it's best to make sure the NCX TpC is as you need it to be as in most cases, it will be used.

08-29-2019, 04:52 PM	#14
DiapDealer Grand Sorcerer Posts: 27,553 Karma: 193191846 Join Date: Jan 2010 Device: Nexus 7, Kindle Fire HD	More irrelevance to a topic about multiple nav documents. Yay!