Calibre needs an Auto-Updater - Page 2

JSWolf · 02-13-2018, 09:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sjfan

The FAQ item lists a bunch of reasons. Among them is one very practical one:

Calibre is a large program. And a free one. It's unrealistic and selfish to expect Kovid to foot the bill for a whole lot of bandwidth when it's really not necessary.

Right now, I update three computers. I do so with one download. If there was an auto-updater, I'd be downloading three copies ro update these three computers. And my guess is the same thing could happen with people using Calibre on multiple computers.

Terisa de morgan · 02-13-2018, 09:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSWolf

Right now, I update three computers. I do so with one download. If there was an auto-updater, I'd be downloading three copies ro update these three computers. And my guess is the same thing could happen with people using Calibre on multiple computers.

Three computers too.

Adoby · 02-13-2018, 11:32 AM

This is where a P2P updater might shine. You only update one machine and the update is propagated to the other machines on the LAN. Corporate sysadmins can configure Win 10 on their corporate LAN to function like this. As can, I assume, private users with several Win 10 computers.

Terisa de morgan · 02-13-2018, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adoby

This is where a P2P updater might shine. You only update one machine and the update is propagated to the other machines on the LAN. Corporate sysadmins can configure Win 10 on their corporate LAN to function like this. As can, I assume, private users with several Win 10 computers.

I have my computers in two houses and two WIFI network, so your solution is no right. And I don't want to have to setup something I don't use only for this update. As we would say in Spain "es matar moscas a cañonazos" or "to crack a nut with a sledgehammer".

DoctorOhh · 02-13-2018, 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terisa de morgan

If you don't mind... please, in case of developing something like this... keep it optional.

Always good to make your voice heard, but since Kovid has clearly stated over the years an auto update feature is not going to happen I think we're safe?

theducks · 02-13-2018, 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terisa de morgan

Three computers too.

Me too, All windows x64's now, so 1 download does it.

How about (if you must auto-update) a 'Torrent' based updater ? That would spread the 'load'. Users would be required to have an 150% average calibre 'seed' to participate in 'auto' mode.
(see, there are legal uses for torrents)

Terisa de morgan · 02-13-2018, 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theducks

Me too, All windows x64's now, so 1 download does it.

How about (if you must auto-update) a 'Torrent' based updater ? That would spread the 'load'. Users would be required to have an 150% average calibre 'seed' to participate in 'auto' mode.
(see, there are legal uses for torrents)

That's the previous suggestion (P2P), but as I've said, computers in different houses and no interest on setting a network. Furthermore, my computer is not running all the time and my network connection is so great. So, no interest for me either

Terisa de morgan · 02-13-2018, 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DoctorOhh

Always good to make your voice heard, but since Kovid has clearly stated over the years an auto update feature is not going to happen I think we're safe?

I hope

rcentros · 02-13-2018, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terisa de morgan

If you don't mind... please, in case of developing something like this... keep it optional. I'm the opposite side of the OP. I totally loathe auto-updates. I want control, I want to know what the update includes and decide if I want to download it. ...

Yep. Same here. As mentioned before, I usually skip three or four Calibre updates just because I don't really need them. I do like to update every month or two, though, because I've noticed that the newer versions Calibre seem to improve and get faster.

HarryT · 02-13-2018, 04:31 PM

I only update when there's either a new feature that interests me, or a bug that sounds as if it might affect me. Most updates I skip.

JSWolf · 02-13-2018, 07:51 PM

I update when there is a new version. But I keep the previous installer in case something isn't working properly and I need to go back.

Divingduck · 02-14-2018, 04:25 AM

I usually download a new update and distribute the installations internal. This give me the opportunity taking a closer look for changes for making a decision what computer in the chain become a update first.

For the point of automatic updates: Well, this isn't so easy as on one hand I like the situation to have updated systems (especially for security updates) and on the other hand I hade the impact this can have from time to time.

(A couple of weeks ago I did some updates for Adobe software and forgot stupidly to block this computer from LAN. I paid this mistake with a total lost of a 30 hour rendering job because of a Microsoft update that crash the system during the rendering. My fault not to check things twice ...)

Anyway, the way Kovid is recognizing me for a new update and leave it to my responsibility if and when a update take place, is for me a good process for these kind of programs.

ander111 · 01-16-2020, 10:17 PM

I realize this isn't a fresh thread, but I'm just seeing it now, and thought I might be able to add some thoughts you peeps may not have considered. (In this way it's an "update"—optional, of course.

) If there's a newer thread on this topic, feel free to move this to it.

First, are you sure Calibre doesn't already have an updater? In Preferences > Behavior, the very first item is "Notify when a new version is available", and it's selected by default... What's up with that? Did some updater-favouring developer sneak it in to be cheeky?

For what it's worth, bundled update-checkers are a common, nearly expected feature these days. And I agree that, no matter what, update-checking should be optional, NOT activated by default.

Some of you here are worried that people with Compulsive Update Disorder (CUD—that's gotta be a thing, doesn't it, for the acronym alone?) will jam Calibre's servers. To limit gratuitous downloads, the updater, on finding a new version, should show a "What's new" window. I've worked with many obsessive IT peeps (and at least two who weren't), and in most cases, detail and reliability trump blind installing. Because so much can go wrong with software, many users would decline updating if there weren't solid reasons to do so, when everything already works.

If obsessive updaters were prominently shown exactly what had changed, I think it's most likely they'd (obsessively, LOL) read the details; determine if any of the changes would benefit them; then update only if that were true; and that otherwise they'd click Cancel. (That's my own behaviour—and I'm usually happy to install software for trivial reasons.)

With the current system of having to manually check for updates, I have no idea how easily these details are seen; I suppose it depends on which of the many Calibre sources one uses. (It may also be influenced by how many reasons one has to create lists with semicolons. Punctuation is a powerful thing for those still versed in that arcane art.)

Also, I realize that in Calibre's case, this may be unlikely—but another legitimate reason for auto-checking for new versions is that they can fix serious problems. Coders do the best they can, but no one can anticipate all possible combinations of user circumstances. If a version of something has a security vulnerability, may unintentionally change or delete user content, or has other pressing issues, it doesn't announce this itself unless it's equipped to go online; then it can make it clear to the user how important it is to update.

Finally, if the decision is made to give Calibre one of these dandy 21st-century-style updaters (and by cracky, you can reckon what a hubbub that'd raise with the folks round the pickle barrel over to the general store!), it shouldn't be necessary to "reinvent the wheel" by writing one. In-app updating (or simply new-version checking) is so de rigueur now, there must be at least several OS plug-'n'-play projects addressing it. Cheers!

DNSB · 01-17-2020, 12:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ander111

First, are you sure Calibre doesn't already have an updater? In Preferences > Behavior, the very first item is "Notify when a new version is available", and it's selected by default... What's up with that? Did some updater-favouring developer sneak it in to be cheeky?

Calibre has let you know that a new version of calibre is available as far back as I recall (2011?). Plugins are handled the same way. The new versions are not automatically installed. For me, this is the best only way to handle updates. You can also check the calibre What's new from the download page. For plugins, I check the plugin thread if I haven't already been following it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ander111

For what it's worth, bundled update-checkers are a common, nearly expected feature these days. And I agree that, no matter what, update-checking should be optional, NOT activated by default.

Update checking should be mandatory. Installing updates should require me to make that decision.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ander111

TL:DR

theducks · 01-17-2020, 10:25 AM

You have a New Version or PI available has been around for a long time.
This tool is slightly intelligent and will not pop up if your OS or version is incompatible (dependency checks in many cases). This may hide a PI update until your Calibre version is updated.

Why the need for Auto? User usage needs mostly dictate when needed. Got a ancient device that works with YOUR current Calibre? Why update (and burn Kovids bandwidth)?

Need a new Feature or got new devices that don't detect? By all means, click Get Update.
It is not a painfully long process, unlike the typical W10 ones, that grind for 10 minutes after the downloads complete.

01-16-2020, 10:17 PM	#28
ander111 Member Posts: 14 Karma: 20 Join Date: Dec 2010 Device: Sony Reader PRS-650	A few more thoughts I realize this isn't a fresh thread, but I'm just seeing it now, and thought I might be able to add some thoughts you peeps may not have considered. (In this way it's an "update"—optional, of course. ) If there's a newer thread on this topic, feel free to move this to it. First, are you sure Calibre doesn't already have an updater? In Preferences > Behavior, the very first item is "Notify when a new version is available", and it's selected by default... What's up with that? Did some updater-favouring developer sneak it in to be cheeky? For what it's worth, bundled update-checkers are a common, nearly expected feature these days. And I agree that, no matter what, update-checking should be optional, NOT activated by default. Some of you here are worried that people with Compulsive Update Disorder (CUD—that's gotta be a thing, doesn't it, for the acronym alone?) will jam Calibre's servers. To limit gratuitous downloads, the updater, on finding a new version, should show a "What's new" window. I've worked with many obsessive IT peeps (and at least two who weren't), and in most cases, detail and reliability trump blind installing. Because so much can go wrong with software, many users would decline updating if there weren't solid reasons to do so, when everything already works. If obsessive updaters were prominently shown exactly what had changed, I think it's most likely they'd (obsessively, LOL) read the details; determine if any of the changes would benefit them; then update only if that were true; and that otherwise they'd click Cancel. (That's my own behaviour—and I'm usually happy to install software for trivial reasons.) With the current system of having to manually check for updates, I have no idea how easily these details are seen; I suppose it depends on which of the many Calibre sources one uses. (It may also be influenced by how many reasons one has to create lists with semicolons. Punctuation is a powerful thing for those still versed in that arcane art.) Also, I realize that in Calibre's case, this may be unlikely—but another legitimate reason for auto-checking for new versions is that they can fix serious problems. Coders do the best they can, but no one can anticipate all possible combinations of user circumstances. If a version of something has a security vulnerability, may unintentionally change or delete user content, or has other pressing issues, it doesn't announce this itself unless it's equipped to go online; then it can make it clear to the user how important it is to update. Finally, if the decision is made to give Calibre one of these dandy 21st-century-style updaters (and by cracky, you can reckon what a hubbub that'd raise with the folks round the pickle barrel over to the general store!), it shouldn't be necessary to "reinvent the wheel" by writing one. In-app updating (or simply new-version checking) is so de rigueur now, there must be at least several OS plug-'n'-play projects addressing it. Cheers!

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02-13-2018, 11:32 AM	#18
Adoby Handy Elephant Posts: 1,736 Karma: 26785668 Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Southern Sweden, far out in the quiet woods Device: Thinkpad E595, Ubuntu Mate, Huawei Mediapad 5, Bouye Likebook Plus	This is where a P2P updater might shine. You only update one machine and the update is propagated to the other machines on the LAN. Corporate sysadmins can configure Win 10 on their corporate LAN to function like this. As can, I assume, private users with several Win 10 computers.

02-13-2018, 04:31 PM	#25
HarryT eBook Enthusiast Posts: 85,544 Karma: 93383043 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: UK Device: Kindle Oasis 2, iPad Pro 10.5", iPhone 6	I only update when there's either a new feature that interests me, or a bug that sounds as if it might affect me. Most updates I skip.

02-13-2018, 07:51 PM	#26
JSWolf Resident Curmudgeon Posts: 73,897 Karma: 128597114 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Roslindale, Massachusetts Device: Kobo Libra 2, Kobo Aura H2O, PRS-650, PRS-T1, nook STR, PW3	I update when there is a new version. But I keep the previous installer in case something isn't working properly and I need to go back.

02-14-2018, 04:25 AM	#27
Divingduck Wizard Posts: 1,161 Karma: 1404241 Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Germany Device: Sony PRS-650	I usually download a new update and distribute the installations internal. This give me the opportunity taking a closer look for changes for making a decision what computer in the chain become a update first. For the point of automatic updates: Well, this isn't so easy as on one hand I like the situation to have updated systems (especially for security updates) and on the other hand I hade the impact this can have from time to time. (A couple of weeks ago I did some updates for Adobe software and forgot stupidly to block this computer from LAN. I paid this mistake with a total lost of a 30 hour rendering job because of a Microsoft update that crash the system during the rendering. My fault not to check things twice ...) Anyway, the way Kovid is recognizing me for a new update and leave it to my responsibility if and when a update take place, is for me a good process for these kind of programs.

01-17-2020, 10:25 AM	#30
theducks Well trained by Cats Posts: 29,782 Karma: 54830978 Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: The Central Coast of California Device: Kobo Libra2,Kobo Aura2v1, K4NT(Fixed: New Bat.), Galaxy Tab A	You have a New Version or PI available has been around for a long time. This tool is slightly intelligent and will not pop up if your OS or version is incompatible (dependency checks in many cases). This may hide a PI update until your Calibre version is updated. Why the need for Auto? User usage needs mostly dictate when needed. Got a ancient device that works with YOUR current Calibre? Why update (and burn Kovids bandwidth)? Need a new Feature or got new devices that don't detect? By all means, click Get Update. It is not a painfully long process, unlike the typical W10 ones, that grind for 10 minutes after the downloads complete.