New Leaf Vote for February 2018 • A Rainbow of Reading - Page 5

issybird · 01-22-2018, 06:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gmw

It is one of the things that a writer must learn to accept: once something is published it is no longer about what the writer intended, it is about the readers' reaction.

That's why I didn't like the preface to Whose Body?! If Sayers had appended it to one of the later books in the canon I wouldn't have minded, as it would have reflected the way she took the books, as was her right.

One of the absolute worst modern practitioners in this regard is J.K. Rowling, who not only won't just shut up about about what she intended, but tries to have it every which way with her widely publicized regrets.

gmw · 01-22-2018, 07:17 AM

Had I first read Whose Body? without the preface there is a good chance I would agree with you (I don't really approve of retrospective changes either), but as I didn't (or if I did it's so long ago I do not remember it), I can only say that the preface worked for me.

The writer in me is not willing to be judgemental of J.K. Rowling. I cannot imagine the pressure she must have been under to have something to say, and this combined with the excessive introspection that goes hand in hand with writing (or does for me), must make it extraordinarily difficult to "just shut up". Perhaps I have not been paying enough attention, but I do wonder if your sense of "won't just shut up" may partly come from the sheer volume of attention that the media pays to everything Harry Potter related, that every word Rowling does have to say will be repeated and analysed ad nauseum, perhaps giving a sense that more was said.

I'd also note that Lord of the Rings got a second edition, and Stephen King's The Stand got an extended edition. Fame brings tremendous commercial pressure to not leave things alone, so I don't know that it is fair to blame the author (or not entirely).

JSWolf · 01-22-2018, 07:21 AM

Whose Body? feels like a first book. It kinda feels like it could have been self-published at Amazon. It feels like Saysers didn't really get how to write a mystery.

issybird · 01-22-2018, 08:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSWolf

Whose Body? feels like a first book. It kinda feels like it could have been self-published at Amazon. It feels like Saysers didn't really get how to write a mystery.

I agree with that, at least up to a point; Sayers is always highly literate and readable, which many self-pubbed books are not.

You're kind of being hoist with your own petard here. First books in a series are frequently a learning experience for the author, and Sayers would go on to develop her craft. But it you won't start a series slightly later, there you are.

I said in a much older thread that I know that when the first tv series of the Lord Peter Wimsey books was developed, the decision was made to start with the second book in the series, Clouds of Witness, a much better book than Whose Body? I think it's a far better gateway to the series and that nothing would be lost by going back to Whose Body? at a later point - but of course you'd be unwilling to do that.

JSWolf · 01-22-2018, 12:54 PM

I didn't find Lord Peter likable. And when your main character is supposed to be likable, that doesn't bode well. Is Lord Peter more likable in the second book?

CRussel · 01-22-2018, 01:34 PM

I certainly thought so, but it's often a personal reaction so I can't say you will. It's tricky, because I've read all the books more than once over many years, so I can no longer see it from 'new' eyes. I also have a long (and positive) experience with British fiction from the early 20th century onwards, so can easily recognize his "uppper-class twit" for the protective colouration that it is, and see underneath.

I'll make a suggestion, Jon. Watch one of the BBC dramatizations of the Sayers books. There are basically two sets -- the Ian Carmichael adaptations of the ones that didn't include Harriet Vane, and the Edward Petherbridge adaptations of the ones that did. (Though that's a bit simplistic, it's close enough.)

The next in the series is Clouds of Witness, which is in the Ian Carmichael set, along with Murder Must Advertise which is a personal favourite. In the Petherbridge group, I would go for the first of them, Strong Poison, which introduces Harriet Vane as Lord Peter tries to save her from certain hanging for murder.

Alohamora · 01-22-2018, 09:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSWolf

I didn't find Lord Peter likable. And when your main character is supposed to be likable, that doesn't bode well. Is Lord Peter more likable in the second book?

I agree with you, I didn't find him likable either. I am willing to overlook unlikable main characters to some degree, if the story is good. ( Or vice versa). But I didn't get either with this book. "Everyone" says the books get better, so I'm still willing to give the next one a go. I certainly see the potential in Bunter and the Dowager Dutchess and maybe even Parker for some interesting character development.

Bookpossum · 01-23-2018, 06:14 AM

Shouldn’t these ideas be in the thread for the Sayers book?!

orlok · 01-23-2018, 07:39 AM

Okay, I've bought Passing, so count me in when the discussion starts.

Bookpossum · 01-23-2018, 02:51 PM

Oh good!

JSWolf · 01-23-2018, 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by orlok

Okay, I've bought Passing, so count me in when the discussion starts.

Um...the discussion has already started.

CRussel · 01-23-2018, 03:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSWolf

Um...the discussion has already started.

No, it hasn't, Jon. The thread is locked until February 1st. Issybird just put it up as a placeholder so we would all know it's coming.

orlok · 01-23-2018, 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSWolf

Um...the discussion has already started.

Well unless I'm missing something obvious, it doesn't start until 15 February.

JSWolf · 01-23-2018, 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CRussel

No, it hasn't, Jon. The thread is locked until February 1st. Issybird just put it up as a placeholder so we would all know it's coming.

OOPS! My mistake. I was thinking of the thread that's currently active.

CRussel · 01-23-2018, 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CRussel

No, it hasn't, Jon. The thread is locked until February 1st. Issybird just put it up as a placeholder so we would all know it's coming.

Quote:

Originally Posted by orlok

Well unless I'm missing something obvious, it doesn't start until 15 February.

Yes, you're correct, orlok. My error, I was thinking of the next nomination period, not the next discussion period. Thanks for the correction.

View Poll Results: What color-full book shall we read for February?
Nothing But Blue Skies by Tom Holt	9	47.37%
Fadeout by Joseph Hansen	5	26.32%
The Price of Salt by Patricia Highsmith	8	42.11%
Passing by Nella Larsen	11	57.89%
Rainbows End: A Novel with One Foot in the Future by Vernor Vinge	7	36.84%
The Amber Fury by Natalie Haynes	4	21.05%
The Color Purple by Alice Walker	4	21.05%
The Snow Leopard by Peter Matthiesen	6	31.58%
The Innocence of Father Brown by G. K. Chesterton	6	31.58%
The Crimson Chalice by Victor Canning	2	10.53%
Green Island by Shawna Yang Ryan	5	26.32%
Colours (Earth Incorporated #1) by Adrian J. Walker	3	15.79%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 19. You may not vote on this poll

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01-22-2018, 07:17 AM	#62
gmw cacoethes scribendi Posts: 5,809 Karma: 137770742 Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Australia Device: Kobo Aura One & H2Ov2, Sony PRS-650	Had I first read Whose Body? without the preface there is a good chance I would agree with you (I don't really approve of retrospective changes either), but as I didn't (or if I did it's so long ago I do not remember it), I can only say that the preface worked for me. The writer in me is not willing to be judgemental of J.K. Rowling. I cannot imagine the pressure she must have been under to have something to say, and this combined with the excessive introspection that goes hand in hand with writing (or does for me), must make it extraordinarily difficult to "just shut up". Perhaps I have not been paying enough attention, but I do wonder if your sense of "won't just shut up" may partly come from the sheer volume of attention that the media pays to everything Harry Potter related, that every word Rowling does have to say will be repeated and analysed ad nauseum, perhaps giving a sense that more was said. I'd also note that Lord of the Rings got a second edition, and Stephen King's The Stand got an extended edition. Fame brings tremendous commercial pressure to not leave things alone, so I don't know that it is fair to blame the author (or not entirely).

01-22-2018, 07:21 AM	#63
JSWolf Resident Curmudgeon Posts: 73,897 Karma: 128597114 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Roslindale, Massachusetts Device: Kobo Libra 2, Kobo Aura H2O, PRS-650, PRS-T1, nook STR, PW3	Whose Body? feels like a first book. It kinda feels like it could have been self-published at Amazon. It feels like Saysers didn't really get how to write a mystery.

01-22-2018, 12:54 PM	#65
JSWolf Resident Curmudgeon Posts: 73,897 Karma: 128597114 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Roslindale, Massachusetts Device: Kobo Libra 2, Kobo Aura H2O, PRS-650, PRS-T1, nook STR, PW3	I didn't find Lord Peter likable. And when your main character is supposed to be likable, that doesn't bode well. Is Lord Peter more likable in the second book?

01-22-2018, 01:34 PM	#66
CRussel (he/him/his) Posts: 12,157 Karma: 79742714 Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Sunshine Coast, BC Device: Oasis (Gen3),Paperwhite (Gen10), Voyage, Paperwhite(orig), Fire HD 8	I certainly thought so, but it's often a personal reaction so I can't say you will. It's tricky, because I've read all the books more than once over many years, so I can no longer see it from 'new' eyes. I also have a long (and positive) experience with British fiction from the early 20th century onwards, so can easily recognize his "uppper-class twit" for the protective colouration that it is, and see underneath. I'll make a suggestion, Jon. Watch one of the BBC dramatizations of the Sayers books. There are basically two sets -- the Ian Carmichael adaptations of the ones that didn't include Harriet Vane, and the Edward Petherbridge adaptations of the ones that did. (Though that's a bit simplistic, it's close enough.) The next in the series is Clouds of Witness, which is in the Ian Carmichael set, along with Murder Must Advertise which is a personal favourite. In the Petherbridge group, I would go for the first of them, Strong Poison, which introduces Harriet Vane as Lord Peter tries to save her from certain hanging for murder.

01-23-2018, 06:14 AM	#68
Bookpossum Snoozing in the sun Posts: 10,137 Karma: 115423645 Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Melbourne, Australia Device: iPad Mini, Kobo Touch	Shouldn’t these ideas be in the thread for the Sayers book?!

01-23-2018, 07:39 AM	#69
orlok Close to the Edit! Posts: 9,797 Karma: 267994408 Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: UK Device: Kindle Oasis, Amazon Fire 8", Kindle 6"	Okay, I've bought Passing, so count me in when the discussion starts.

01-23-2018, 02:51 PM	#70
Bookpossum Snoozing in the sun Posts: 10,137 Karma: 115423645 Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Melbourne, Australia Device: iPad Mini, Kobo Touch	Oh good!