New PocketBook 7.8" Color E-Ink Reader

[Nate the great]

Originally Posted by ps67

And about reading normal ebooks? Is it visible the old Kaleido layer that causes the little grey points in the screen like in PB633 color?

I didn't think so. It looks fine to me.

[rantanplan]

Originally Posted by Quoth

Maybe directly printed, I don't know how it's applied.

As far as I understood in their youtube video it's directly printed.

[b0rsuk]

I noticed a few more technical differences:
- battery is now 2900 mAh, compared to 1900 of InkPad 3 (pro).
- Linux kernel upgrade from 3.0.35 to 3.10.65

They didn't change the system to something relatively power hungry like Android. So does the color screen use more? Will the battery last even longer in black&racist mode?

[Quoth]

The colour is only a filter. The screen is really a monochrome eink. Processing colour and mono images might take a little more power, but not actual display.

[Quoth]

Originally Posted by rantanplan

As far as I understood in their youtube video it's directly printed.

I can't see how it could be easily registered (aligned) otherwise. Also a glass or plastic substrate with the filter, even with printed side to the display, would be inferior.

[kandwo]

Originally Posted by b0rsuk

I noticed a few more technical differences:
- battery is now 2900 mAh, compared to 1900 of InkPad 3 (pro).
- Linux kernel upgrade from 3.0.35 to 3.10.65

They didn't change the system to something relatively power hungry like Android. So does the color screen use more? Will the battery last even longer in black&racist mode?

Assuming the 2nd gen of kaleido is also darker than a normal BW screen it would pretty much require the backlight to be on constantly, which would drain more battery. Perhaps that could be the reason?

[ottischwenk]

Originally Posted by kandwo

require the backlight to be on constantly,

No EInk device can have a backlight - EInk does not allow light to pass through

[kandwo]

Originally Posted by ottischwenk

No EInk device can have a backlight - EInk does not allow light to pass through

Yes, I'm aware that it's a frontlight. I keep writing backlight at times purely out of habit (after all most devices do have a backlight).

I don't see the relevance, however, of correcting this. Yes, it's technically wrong, but the end result is the same. Is there a specific reason that you point this out? Is there some significant difference between a frontlight and a backlight for the reader?

In my experience the light emanates just as strongly from the frontlight of my e-ink devices as my backlit computer screen or my phone. This is based on activating the lights in a dark room to compare how they light up their surroundings.

[ottischwenk]

Originally Posted by kandwo

Is there some significant difference between a frontlight and a backlight for the reader?

Yes, with the backlight the light source shines (color-filtered) directly into the eyes, with the frontlight you only see the reflection of the light - that is an enormous qualitative difference.

[kandwo]

Originally Posted by ottischwenk

Yes, with the backlight the light source shines (color-filtered) directly into the eyes, with the frontlight you only see the reflection of the light - that is an enormous qualitative difference.

Would you have any research to back it up? From my own, admittedly very limited, experience my eyes tire quicker with the frontlight on. (I almost never use it, though.) I have also read of people here on the forums and on reddit suffering from eye strain issues; the consensus seems to be that e-ink solves this problem, but only with the frontlight deactivated. This wouldn't surprise me, considering that the frontlight lights up a dark room about as much as a backlight does.

Still, it would be interesting to read research on this topic. Maybe that is a bit much to hope for. The research I have seen seems to conclude that LCD screens are no more tiring than e-ink, which is a ridiculous conclusion. (If, however, they tested this with the frontlight on and the above description holds true it might actually be a valid result.)

[ottischwenk]

Originally Posted by kandwo

Would you have any research to back it up?

A foto - left Boox Note Air, right a 10 inch tablet.
The light intensity is set so that both devices appear equally bright.
Both devices are equidistant from the white wall.

[kandwo]

Originally Posted by ottischwenk

A foto - left Boox Note Air, right a 10 inch tablet.
The light intensity is set so that both devices appear equally bright.
Both devices are equidistant from the white wall.

Interesting! Thank you for the photo. I hope you are correct in your estimation here, as I do want to use the warm backlight at a low setting when reading at night. It's a very interesting topic - I've read a lot of conflicting reports regarding different kinds of lights and/or the effect of the temperature of said lights.

For instance, some claim that programs that filter blue light (f.lux, redshift, etc.) help with eye strain and sleep issues, while others are adamant it makes no difference whatever. Same thing with frontlight vs backlight. But even assuming that the light is equal in effect at the same amount, your experiment here shows that at perceived levels of equal light the quantity of light emitted from a frontlight would be smaller.

[ottischwenk]

Originally Posted by kandwo

Interesting! Thank you for the photo. I hope you are correct in your estimation here, as I do want to use the warm backlight at a low setting when reading at night. It's a very interesting topic - I've read a lot of conflicting reports regarding different kinds of lights and/or the effect of the temperature of said lights.

For instance, some claim that programs that filter blue light (f.lux, redshift, etc.) help with eye strain and sleep issues, while others are adamant it makes no difference whatever. Same thing with frontlight vs backlight. But even assuming that the light is equal in effect at the same amount, your experiment here shows that at perceived levels of equal light the quantity of light emitted from a frontlight would be smaller.

When you look at an illuminated EReader, you see as if it were lit from the outside like a paper book - which it is. Because the light is thrown through the light guide layer onto the EInk module and reflected by it (the light source is behind the side cover).
If you look at a tablet, you are looking directly into the light source.

[murraypaul]

Originally Posted by ottischwenk

If you look at a tablet, you are looking directly into the light source.

Which makes no actual difference at all, but both sides of this conversation have been hashed out to death.
A light pointed in your eyes is the same as a light from behind you pointed at a mirror at half the distance as the original source.
Photons either enter your eyes or they don't.

[Quoth]

The issue with OLED and LCD seems to be people having the brightness set for outdoors and then not turning it to minimum. Set an old paperback under your night time reading light. Reduce the phone/tablet to same brightness as the page. Some can be turned cream/yellow/amber. Then there is no deleterious effect to your eyes.
Even auto light level screens are rubbish compared to manual. The issue is that auto, or manual, the screen doesn't have the same brightness as a book in the same lighting. An eink with the front light off is like a paperback, better than a 30 year old one, it is always matching the ambient light.

An eink with the front LEDs turned up high is as bad or worse than an OLED or LCD backlight. It's LED light ignoring the ambient level.

Also though many phone, laptop and tablet screen are shiny. You unconsciously focus on moving reflections and that causes a headache. Studies on CRTs facing windows with traffic or open plan offices showed this over 30 years ago. Have screen sideways to a window and never facing where people walk in an open plan office.