How to back up DRM-protected content? - Page 2

Worldwalker · 07-08-2010, 11:30 PM

Hey, I have an Atari 2600!

What =X= said about leasing versus buying is one reason I will not buy DRM-restricted ebooks, especially when they are twice the price of paper books which I have full ownership of.

DRM leaves you at the mercy of whoever is controlling the authentication, of software changes (such as stealth patches) which can remove device registration and/or access to books, and of technical failures of all types.

People who want to pirate books just strip the DRM and put the book on the darknet (or skip the ebook phase entirely and scan/OCR a pbook). They're happy.

People who don't think that legality always tracks precisely with right and wrong strip the DRM on their ebooks. They're satisfied.

People who dutifully obey the law, or who don't have the technical know-how to strip DRM, suffer (and post about it on MobileRead). They're miserable.

Isn't this exactly the opposite of the way it should be? Shouldn't the bad guys be the ones suffering, and the obedient ones be happy? It should be, if that was what DRM was about. But it's not. It's about platform lock-in. It's about repeat sales of the same content. It's about training the consumer that they don't actually own what they buy, they just purchase a limited license to use it for a little while. And it's about control. This is not a good thing.

Shaggy · 07-09-2010, 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vaughnmr

Everything I've read says that removing the drm locks is now illegal in the US

The real question is, as long as you're doing it for personal use and aren't distributing the files to someone else... then how would anybody find out, and why would they care?

bjones6416 · 07-09-2010, 12:39 PM

Quote:

...I'd also argue that most people do not ever re-read their books. So even if you lose a bunch through bankruptcy and hardware failure, the loss is slight. You might even be able to borrow from your local library by then.

Do most people really not re-read their books? I admit that I don't re-read EVERY book, but most things that I like -- yeah, I re-read them. I have the opposite of a "mind like a steel trap." I can pick up a book I read a year ago, and think, "Hey, this is good! Wonder what happens in the end?" :-)

Shaggy · 07-09-2010, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bjones6416

Do most people really not re-read their books? I admit that I don't re-read EVERY book, but most things that I like -- yeah, I re-read them.

Same here. Some of my favorite series have been re-read numerous times.

SensualPoet · 07-09-2010, 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by =X=

This happens to me with Fictionwise when Adobe switch to Adobe DRM. I lost access to all my PDF books that where discontinued. There was no way for me to download the PDF with the new DRM because FW did not carry the book any longer. FW also refused to refund my purchase stating that I was able to download the book in the past.

Just for my interest, were the original PDF files you paid for DRM? Did you have a back-up of those? Why were you not able to read the files any longer?

mr ploppy · 07-09-2010, 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bjones6416

Do most people really not re-read their books? I admit that I don't re-read EVERY book, but most things that I like -- yeah, I re-read them. I have the opposite of a "mind like a steel trap." I can pick up a book I read a year ago, and think, "Hey, this is good! Wonder what happens in the end?" :-)

I prefer reading books that I have already read, that way I know for definite that I am going to enjoy the book, and it doesn't matter much if my mind drifts off while I am reading.

But having said that, a lot of the books I used to like when I was young don't seem anywhere near as good any more.

mr ploppy · 07-09-2010, 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shaggy

The real question is, as long as you're doing it for personal use and aren't distributing the files to someone else... then how would anybody find out, and why would they care?

You could say the same for downloading an ebook instead of buying one. Some people obey laws, some people ignore them. Others pick and choose as they see fit.

Shaggy · 07-09-2010, 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr ploppy

You could say the same for downloading an ebook instead of buying one.

You could also say that downloading an ebook isn't illegal.

Xenophon · 07-09-2010, 02:37 PM

It may well be true that most people don't re-read their books. My experience is that

I can't afford to buy enough books to keep myself in all-new reading material
My public library doesn't have enough of what interests me to fill the gap
Most of what I can borrow from friends is books I have already read

So I wind up re-reading.

As with nearly everything, your mileage will almost certainly vary.

Xenophon

Rich_D · 07-09-2010, 03:27 PM

A couple well phrased google searches will show you how simple it is to strip the drm. Strip it and save a copy. It's pretty easy and insures that you can read your purchase on future devices.

=X= · 07-09-2010, 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SensualPoet

Just for my interest, were the original PDF files you paid for DRM? Did you have a back-up of those? Why were you not able to read the files any longer?

Yes the where Adobe DRM PDF books, I purchased them from FW before ePUB came out. The book was titled "Seven Indicators that Move the Market", it's a book I've read and continue to re-read as well as reference.

When ePUB came out and Adobe announced DRM support for ePUB. I downloaded, installed and registered Adobe DE for their ePUB books. What was never mentioned during the process was that my old DRM PDF would no longer work with the new DRM.

Adobe Tech support told me I had to re-download my PDF with the new DRM scheme. Fair enough, when I went to FW to download my PDF book, it was out of production and I could not download the book. Even after explaining my situation to FW they where not able to help. When I asked for a refund they declined my request because I already downloaded the book in the past. There was another PDF book that was effected but I didn't so much care for that book.

You would think since that is a corner case incident this would only happen once. Not so.

When that whole Overdrive incident happened, where Overdrive was going to quit stocking MOBI DRM books, FW advised it's members to re-download their books or else you would lose that book.

Well I went to download my book, this one was called "Day trading Options" and two other similar books, I found out that book was also discontinued. Since the original book was tied to a device I no longer had I could not re-download the book with the new device PID. Also I had computer problems a few moths prior to the incident and re-installed my OS. So the original PID assigned to my computer was also not working. Again FW response was the same.

Of course the DeMark book is back, but in PDF. I'm sure FW will not do the noble deed here and give me access to the book.

These books are slightly more expensive than a hardback best seller averaging around $35-$45. Having to re-purchase them is not fun, but the worst part is just not having access to them period!

=X=

Shaggy · 07-09-2010, 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by motjebben

How does one back up DRM-protected content (locally)?

Others have already mentioned it, just throwing in my vote for:

1) Strip DRM
2) Backup file

motjebben · 07-09-2010, 07:40 PM

Thank you, all, for an excellent, thought-provoking discussion. Based on this discussion, I've confidently solved my dilemma.
It will be very interesting to see what happens as this "emerging" technology matures! (I know that most of it really isn't so new "technology-wise", but the application of ebooks on a grand-scale is. (My father has an OLD RCA ebook reader that still works!)

I also found it interesting to realize that I, too, do not often re-read books. HOWEVER, I DO have books that I have stuck markers in to refer to special passages that I DO re-read. Hence, it is nice to have them on-hand to examine. Also, for those that I DO re-read, I often have a very different perspective as I age! And, I also agree, though I hate to admit it, that I don't remember what I've read, and (fortunately) can often enjoy a second read-through, as if it were the first.

Don't forget that the neuroscientists remind us that memory retrieval is memory modification...

Cheers to all ! And... THANK YOU!

-Mike

Rich_D · 07-09-2010, 09:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bjones6416

Do most people really not re-read their books? I admit that I don't re-read EVERY book, but most things that I like -- yeah, I re-read them. I have the opposite of a "mind like a steel trap." I can pick up a book I read a year ago, and think, "Hey, this is good! Wonder what happens in the end?" :-)

I always read books multiple times. Sometimes when I have limited time, I'll just open a previously read book to a random page or favorite scene and start reading from there. For books like Harry Potter, I always read the previous book a week or two before the next in the series is released.

Worldwalker · 07-09-2010, 09:48 PM

Chiming in a little late here, I re-read books all the time. I have pbooks I've read so many times I've worn them out.

07-09-2010, 02:37 PM	#24
Xenophon curmudgeon Posts: 1,481 Karma: 5748190 Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Redwood City, CA USA Device: Kobo Aura HD, (ex)nook, (ex)PRS-700, (ex)PRS-500	It may well be true that most people don't re-read their books. My experience is that I can't afford to buy enough books to keep myself in all-new reading material My public library doesn't have enough of what interests me to fill the gap Most of what I can borrow from friends is books I have already read So I wind up re-reading. As with nearly everything, your mileage will almost certainly vary. Xenophon

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07-08-2010, 11:30 PM	#16
Worldwalker Curmudgeon Posts: 3,085 Karma: 722357 Join Date: Feb 2010 Device: PRS-505	Hey, I have an Atari 2600! What =X= said about leasing versus buying is one reason I will not buy DRM-restricted ebooks, especially when they are twice the price of paper books which I have full ownership of. DRM leaves you at the mercy of whoever is controlling the authentication, of software changes (such as stealth patches) which can remove device registration and/or access to books, and of technical failures of all types. People who want to pirate books just strip the DRM and put the book on the darknet (or skip the ebook phase entirely and scan/OCR a pbook). They're happy. People who don't think that legality always tracks precisely with right and wrong strip the DRM on their ebooks. They're satisfied. People who dutifully obey the law, or who don't have the technical know-how to strip DRM, suffer (and post about it on MobileRead). They're miserable. Isn't this exactly the opposite of the way it should be? Shouldn't the bad guys be the ones suffering, and the obedient ones be happy? It should be, if that was what DRM was about. But it's not. It's about platform lock-in. It's about repeat sales of the same content. It's about training the consumer that they don't actually own what they buy, they just purchase a limited license to use it for a little while. And it's about control. This is not a good thing.

07-09-2010, 03:27 PM	#25
Rich_D Fanatic Posts: 581 Karma: 1314896 Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Pittsburgh, PA USA Device: Android phone, Kobo Glo HD, nook ST with Glo (backup)	A couple well phrased google searches will show you how simple it is to strip the drm. Strip it and save a copy. It's pretty easy and insures that you can read your purchase on future devices.

07-09-2010, 07:40 PM	#28
motjebben Junior Member Posts: 2 Karma: 10 Join Date: Jul 2010 Device: Nook	Thank you, all, for an excellent, thought-provoking discussion. Based on this discussion, I've confidently solved my dilemma. It will be very interesting to see what happens as this "emerging" technology matures! (I know that most of it really isn't so new "technology-wise", but the application of ebooks on a grand-scale is. (My father has an OLD RCA ebook reader that still works!) I also found it interesting to realize that I, too, do not often re-read books. HOWEVER, I DO have books that I have stuck markers in to refer to special passages that I DO re-read. Hence, it is nice to have them on-hand to examine. Also, for those that I DO re-read, I often have a very different perspective as I age! And, I also agree, though I hate to admit it, that I don't remember what I've read, and (fortunately) can often enjoy a second read-through, as if it were the first. Don't forget that the neuroscientists remind us that memory retrieval is memory modification... Cheers to all ! And... THANK YOU! -Mike

07-09-2010, 09:48 PM	#30
Worldwalker Curmudgeon Posts: 3,085 Karma: 722357 Join Date: Feb 2010 Device: PRS-505	Chiming in a little late here, I re-read books all the time. I have pbooks I've read so many times I've worn them out.

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