New e-readers will end black and white era - Page 2

HarryT · 05-26-2009, 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mjh215

One thing I -don't- want to see is them abandon the monochrome displays before the colour screens have the same black (ok, gray) and white (ok, gray) contrast that the current screen has. Otherwise for probably 98% of the text in a book you'll read, even in a textbook or technical manual, it would be a step backward. I don't see the benefits of colour outweighing that.

-MJ

Another disadvantage would be if the colour screens use "tricolour" colour formation methods as, for example, LCD screens do. This would reduce the inherent resolution by a factor of 3 - a 166 dpi mono screen would become a 56 dpi colour one - and that would have a disastrous effect on text quality.

I'd like to see colour screens, but not at the expense of reduced resolution.

Jellby · 05-26-2009, 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryT

Another disadvantage would be if the colour screens use "tricolour" colour formation methods as, for example, LCD screens do. This would reduce the inherent resolution by a factor of 3 - a 166 dpi mono screen would become a 56 dpi colour one - and that would have a disastrous effect on text quality.

Not necessarily. That would give 9 coloured dots per pixel, when all that's needed is 3. The optimal reduction would be sqrt(3)=1.73, that's from 166 dpi mono to 96 dpi colour. I'd bet there's no physical layout of dot's with this optimal factor, but a reduction of 2 seems possible. from 166 to 83.

Besides, it seems the new 5" screes have a better resolution (200 dpi?), so the colour resolution could be 100 dpi already.

IgnareAcademy · 05-26-2009, 03:07 PM

100 dpi...no way! I want higher resolution, not lower.

stoogeswoman · 05-26-2009, 03:29 PM

I guess I'm weird because I kind of prefer the black & white (or grey & dark grey, whatever ;-) ). More like an actual book.

Once we get color screens, it's no longer a special magical device for reading books - it's just another computer.

DaleDe · 05-26-2009, 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jellby

Not necessarily. That would give 9 coloured dots per pixel, when all that's needed is 3. The optimal reduction would be sqrt(3)=1.73, that's from 166 dpi mono to 96 dpi colour. I'd bet there's no physical layout of dot's with this optimal factor, but a reduction of 2 seems possible. from 166 to 83.

Besides, it seems the new 5" screes have a better resolution (200 dpi?), so the colour resolution could be 100 dpi already.

True, the color system being proposed is actually 4 bits with a white one as well as the 3 colors. This will produce 100 dpi on a 5" screen with no other improvements. It is not clear how far the technology can go with smaller dots but 200 ppi is probably not the upper limit.

Dale

Jaime_Astorga · 05-27-2009, 12:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stoogeswoman

I guess I'm weird because I kind of prefer the black & white (or grey & dark grey, whatever ;-) ). More like an actual book.

Once we get color screens, it's no longer a special magical device for reading books - it's just another computer.

Well, it would still be E Ink, you know. So long battery life, low refresh rate, not so suited for general computing.

Besides, most books would probably still be rendered in black and white (or perhaps black on light brown?) so there won't be much of a difference.

HappyMartin · 05-27-2009, 01:22 AM

I realize that this is all conjecture but surely with e ink being a subtractive colour system like paper, we would have to use the subtractive primaries so Cyan Magenta and Yellow would be the colours used with the addition of black (K) as used in traditional printing presses. As far as I am aware all colour systems using reflective light use CMYK or a variant thereof and all additive systems such as monitors and TV sets use RGB.

I think this makes it difficult to compare resolutions with screens.

Xiaopanda · 05-27-2009, 02:26 AM

Can't wait for:

1) Colour E-ink and
2) cbz / cbr support and
3) both in an A4 sized reader!

Not too concerned with either bendiness OR flexabilty..

pdurrant · 05-27-2009, 08:40 AM

https://www.mobileread.com/forums/sho...241#post451241

The answer is it depends. Various companies are working on RGBW and CMYK low-power stable reflective screens.

Quote:

Originally Posted by HappyMartin

I realize that this is all conjecture but surely with e ink being a subtractive colour system like paper, we would have to use the subtractive primaries so Cyan Magenta and Yellow would be the colours used with the addition of black (K) as used in traditional printing presses. As far as I am aware all colour systems using reflective light use CMYK or a variant thereof and all additive systems such as monitors and TV sets use RGB.

I think this makes it difficult to compare resolutions with screens.

HarryT · 05-27-2009, 08:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaleDe

True, the color system being proposed is actually 4 bits with a white one as well as the 3 colors. This will produce 100 dpi on a 5" screen with no other improvements. It is not clear how far the technology can go with smaller dots but 200 ppi is probably not the upper limit.

Dale

Given the choice between 100dpi colour, and 200dpi B&W, I'd personally go for the B&W every time. Good quality text is, for me, more important than colour.

JSWolf · 05-27-2009, 08:47 AM

Until a product is actually released, color eink is just a rumor.

HarryT · 05-27-2009, 08:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSWolf

Until a product is actually released, color eink is just a rumor.

No, Fujitsu have a colour device out now. Very expensive and very slow, but it definitely exists.

JSWolf · 05-27-2009, 08:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryT

No, Fujitsu have a colour device out now. Very expensive and very slow, but it definitely exists.

This is true. My mistake. But I don't get excited about new technology until it's actually out. We've seen lots of different devices announced that have never seen the light of day. And the Fujitsu device is about $1300 US dollars. Not worth it IMHO.

ahi · 05-27-2009, 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaleDe

The E-Ink guy I talked to says they are trying to make it whiter but so far this is the best they have been able to do. It will likely never be as white as a high quality paper book.

It is in their favour though that most books use creme/off-white colour paper instead of pure white. Pure white tends to be used more with textbooks and other non-leisure reading titles.

Not to suggest I know for a fact that the creme/off-white of your average dead-tree novel is reachable by eInk; but just to note that their target need not necessarily be the #FFFFFF white of HTML fame.

- Ahi

fugazied · 05-27-2009, 07:37 PM

At least with color you can get the kids reading easier. I look forward to illustrated books and multimedia kids books.

When you consider the potential of ebook readers, they can make books with animated pictures/videos, sound bytes, or each page could have a backing track (imagine snow white with a soundtrack for each page).

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05-26-2009, 03:07 PM	#18
IgnareAcademy Banned Posts: 49 Karma: 50 Join Date: May 2009 Device: Hanlin clone	100 dpi...no way! I want higher resolution, not lower.

05-26-2009, 03:29 PM	#19
stoogeswoman Zealot Posts: 149 Karma: 492 Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Reseda, CA Device: eBookwise 1150 and Kindle 1	I guess I'm weird because I kind of prefer the black & white (or grey & dark grey, whatever ;-) ). More like an actual book. Once we get color screens, it's no longer a special magical device for reading books - it's just another computer.

05-27-2009, 01:22 AM	#22
HappyMartin Martin Kristiansen Posts: 1,546 Karma: 8480958 Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Johannesburg Device: Kindle International Ipad 2	I realize that this is all conjecture but surely with e ink being a subtractive colour system like paper, we would have to use the subtractive primaries so Cyan Magenta and Yellow would be the colours used with the addition of black (K) as used in traditional printing presses. As far as I am aware all colour systems using reflective light use CMYK or a variant thereof and all additive systems such as monitors and TV sets use RGB. I think this makes it difficult to compare resolutions with screens.

05-27-2009, 02:26 AM	#23
Xiaopanda Addict Posts: 230 Karma: 1290 Join Date: May 2009 Location: Brisbane Australia Device: Kindle Paperwhite	Can't wait for: 1) Colour E-ink and 2) cbz / cbr support and 3) both in an A4 sized reader! Not too concerned with either bendiness OR flexabilty..

05-27-2009, 08:47 AM	#26
JSWolf Resident Curmudgeon Posts: 73,987 Karma: 128903378 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Roslindale, Massachusetts Device: Kobo Libra 2, Kobo Aura H2O, PRS-650, PRS-T1, nook STR, PW3	Until a product is actually released, color eink is just a rumor.

05-27-2009, 07:37 PM	#30
fugazied Wizard Posts: 1,305 Karma: 1958 Join Date: Jan 2009 Device: iPod Touch	At least with color you can get the kids reading easier. I look forward to illustrated books and multimedia kids books. When you consider the potential of ebook readers, they can make books with animated pictures/videos, sound bytes, or each page could have a backing track (imagine snow white with a soundtrack for each page).

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