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Old 09-04-2014, 05:29 AM   #106
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Baen has some great books/authors, some enjoyable ones, some meh (to me), and, well, John Ringo .
Oh John Ringo No!
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Old 09-04-2014, 05:48 AM   #107
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Oh John Ringo No!
You really shouldn't mention that meme without a link to where it started.

Although I should add a warning that it's commentary on John Ringo's book "Ghost" which he never intended to see the light of day. If you're upset by descriptions and discussion of explict sex, violence and sexual violence, don't go there.
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Old 09-04-2014, 05:56 AM   #108
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If you have never read The Witches of Karres, also by James H. Schmitz, you should do so.
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Old 09-04-2014, 06:14 AM   #109
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You have no idea how happy this list makes me. Anyone with the SLIGHTEST interest in sci-fi needs to read Schmitz's HUB books and the Chris Anvil collections.

Ryk Spoor is great too, I loved Grand Central Arena... great, old school style space opera.
Schmitz is one of the unsung masters of the genre. A few decades ahead of his time, too.
(Laumer, too.)

I compiled the list off the top of my head and after I hit ten I realized I had titles from every decade from the 40's to the present. And it's pretty representative of their catalog; some fantasy, some straight SF, a lot of adventure and space opera.
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Old 09-04-2014, 06:59 AM   #110
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Originally Posted by pdurrant View Post
You really shouldn't mention that meme without a link to where it started.

Although I should add a warning that it's commentary on John Ringo's book "Ghost" which he never intended to see the light of day. If you're upset by descriptions and discussion of explict sex, violence and sexual violence, don't go there.
Interestingly enough, that critique made me curious enough to dig up the titles and read them. GHOST is...R.A.W. He really took it right to the edge and beyond. Latter John Norman territory...
...and then he pulled back.
The character was conceived as a twisted sick, sick, guy but has evolved into a very different direction than where the first few stories (collected in GHOST) were headed.

Two things I find curious about that series:

- First, it sold and extremely well. I have no familiarity with erotica, mild or extreme, but I wonder if that particular mix of sex and violence is common outside the mainstream publishers. Because the (fantasy) violence in GHOST is actually run of the mill action movie stuff and nowhere as lurid or explicit as many other examples of the genre. Plenty of writers push the envelope on the violence side and nobody blinks an eye. Push the envelope on the sexual side and all heck breaks loose...

- Second, anybody coming to the series via the second volume is going to find a much more mainstream narrative. Still a mix of over the top action and very explicit sex but with occasional touches of intentional farce. And it still sells well enough to keep the sequels coming. The books clearly tapped a waiting market. Ringo describes GHOST as a writing experiment he never expected to get anywhere. Instead, it spawned a commercial success.
Says as much about our times as anything, I suppose.

Here's the wiki take on the series:

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_...Shadows_Series

Volumes 2 and beyond are pretty good (and mostly harmless) in the MACK BOLAN/DESTROYER school of action adventures but that first volume...
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Old 09-04-2014, 07:13 AM   #111
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In contrast, Ringo's other works range from old school space adventure:
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_...Shadows_Series

...to light urban fantasy...
http://www.amazon.com/Princess-Wands.../dp/1416573860

...to space opera...
http://www.amazon.com/Live-Free-Die-.../dp/1439133972

Even this most (deservedly) controversial Baen author is more than just the caricature he's portrayed as.

BAEN is a small-ish publisher with a varied cstalog from a lot of different authors. They're not all John Ringo. In fact, even John Ringo isn't "John Ringo".

BAEN isn't out to deliver literature, just fun reads for SF/fantasy readers.
That is hardly a crime.

Last edited by fjtorres; 09-04-2014 at 07:53 AM.
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Old 09-04-2014, 11:08 AM   #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fjtorres View Post
In contrast, Ringo's other works range from old school space adventure:
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_...Shadows_Series

...to light urban fantasy...
http://www.amazon.com/Princess-Wands.../dp/1416573860

...to space opera...
http://www.amazon.com/Live-Free-Die-.../dp/1439133972

Even this most (deservedly) controversial Baen author is more than just the caricature he's portrayed as.

BAEN is a small-ish publisher with a varied cstalog from a lot of different authors. They're not all John Ringo. In fact, even John Ringo isn't "John Ringo".

BAEN isn't out to deliver literature, just fun reads for SF/fantasy readers.
That is hardly a crime.
Jerry Pournelle use to say that Robert Heinlein told him that writers were story tellers competing for a piece of the consumer's beer money. That's probably as good of a description as any of the niche that Baen Books fills. They focus more on good story telling than high literature.
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Old 09-04-2014, 11:27 AM   #113
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You really shouldn't mention that meme without a link to where it started.
Well, that's the first time I've seen a blog entry rendered unreadable by sidebar material covering the text.

Quote:
Although I should add a warning that it's commentary on John Ringo's book "Ghost" which he never intended to see the light of day. If you're upset by descriptions and discussion of explict sex, violence and sexual violence, don't go there.
I think he's put his finger on exactly what bothers (and intrigues) me about John Ringo. Although I've been completely capable of resisting the urge to read anything else by him than _The Last Centurion_.
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Old 09-04-2014, 01:10 PM   #114
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I don't really care what the author's political views are as long as the story is good. If their political views disrupt the flow of the story then I get annoyed, not because of their political ideology but because I want the story to progress. I've not read any John Ringo but will give his Posleen series a go. I'll also give the Ghost series a go and skip the rape scene if I find it too extreme. I saw some of the video interviews done with the authors on youtube which were interesting. I even saw the one with Tom Kratman, and was surprised that he wasn't even more right wing! He isn't even libertarian, and he gives some good reasons why he isn't, which were interesting. David Drake's interview was interesting too, although the audio for all of them was appalling.
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Old 09-04-2014, 01:12 PM   #115
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I'm 2/3 through "A Hymn Before Battle" audiobook, the first John Ringo book I've tried.
Not sure I see any indication of what the fuss is about.
The writing and pacing reminds me of David Weber (which means, to me, a little bogged down in technical details and procedures). As far as writing 'quality,' if nothing has so far stuck in my mind as especially memorable prose, neither has anything especially put me off.

Without getting too political hopefully, unless "right wing extremist" means not insulting the military anytime it's referenced (which it seems to for some people), I haven't detected a political message nearly as strong or overt as, say, Heinlein.
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Old 09-04-2014, 01:43 PM   #116
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I think he's put his finger on exactly what bothers (and intrigues) me about John Ringo. Although I've been completely capable of resisting the urge to read anything else by him than _The Last Centurion_.
I think the discussion of ideological fiction was spot on. I have been reading Ringo's zombie post-apocalyptic series, which I've found tolerable despite the ideology, and a Michael Moore fat joke made by a 14 year old girl . Still, I wonder about my coworker who I believe rates Ringo as one of his favorite authors.
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Old 09-04-2014, 01:48 PM   #117
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Without getting too political hopefully, unless "right wing extremist" means not insulting the military anytime it's referenced (which it seems to for some people), I haven't detected a political message nearly as strong or overt as, say, Heinlein.
I made it through the first three. Maybe its me, but reading them back-to-back-to-back didn't work for me. (Note that Hymn was his first published work.)

Paladin of Shadows does work back-to-back.
Ditto for The Vorpal Blade series, the Council Wars, and especially his recent BLACK TIDE RISING zombie apocalypse "series" (it's really a serialized mega novel, much like the EMPIRE OF MAN series he co-writes with Weber).

I haven't read PRINCESS OF WANDS yet but it's moving up on my TBR list.

And, no, the "political" issue with Ringo isn't a matter of preaching. (He doesn't bother trying to convince anybody.) Rather it is the generally favorable portrayal of the military and american gun culture that he presents. And occasionally spoofs.
(One scene in INTO THE LOOKING GLASS has the protagonist in a running gunfight with an invading alien monster and he comes to a convenience store where some good old boys are gassing up their pickups. "Shoot it" he screams on the run. Suddenly the good old boys pop out an arsenal the National Guard would envy. Monster never knew what hit it.)

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Old 09-04-2014, 02:05 PM   #118
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I have read all of the Mainline Posleen books and I was disappointed in the way he ended the series. To me it seemed that he just got tired of the series and decided to ended it.
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Old 09-04-2014, 02:30 PM   #119
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I have read all of the Mainline Posleen books and I was disappointed in the way he ended the series. To me it seemed that he just got tired of the series and decided to ended it.
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I'm not sure he ended it as much as abandoned it.
I saw a comment of his to the effect that there are only so many ways to fight a horde of alien barbarians. And that if he came up with a new one...

His other series seem to have stronger narrative arcs built in so he probably has a fixed ending in mind.
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Old 09-04-2014, 03:26 PM   #120
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I don't care. Their job is to find and deliver entertaining reads at a good price. Most of their controversial books I've found to be perfectly fine entertainment, with a bite on the side.

I like stories with bite.
I don't like muzzling authors.
There I stand.
Buy or don't buy according to your taste but don't get in the way.
Live and let die.
The thought of self censoring my activities based some sort of arbitrary "political purity" test just plain creeps me out. I'm pretty conservative politically, but the only way I know I'm still conservative is by reading and hearing from people who are more liberal than me. And I would hope they would consider MY arguments on various issues in the same way.

But unfortunately, there are people in the world who want to turn intellectual activity into some sort of mob action.
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