Selling a Kobo - what to do?

[Deskisamess]

Wow. To even ask how this is cheating authors is mind boggling.

[Quoth]

Removing DRM, despite what USA laws say, is legal in many countries and NOTHING at all to do with Copyright violation. Copyright violation is giving away OR charging for content that has a copyright with out paying the agreed royalty to the copyright owner. (bought or licensed, the licence terms are not even legal in some countries and IRRELEVANT to copyright.)

If someone buys the books in electronic format and then passes them to someone else AND destroys all copies that they have, then there is no copyright violation. That has already been established. Passing on the books and keeping back-up or archive copies or right to re-download from the Cloud is copyright violation, like photocopying or cutting off the spine, using industrial sheet feeder and scanner and making PDF (OCR or not). Google is one of the biggest copyright violators in the world doing that and encourage others to violate copyright by accepting PDF uploads on the Google Books.

Certainly if you buy an eBook from Smashwords, Barnes & Noble, Apple iTunes, Kobo or Amazon you can't pass on a copy because you STILL have a copy in the booksellers cloud. You have to "gift it" at point of sale (not all sellers), then it's not in your "Cloud Library".

The Cloud Libraries system is dishonest as it takes away right to transfer (as gift or sale) because copyright violations are created. The so called "licence conditions" for sales of electronic media are dishonest and in some countries actually illegal because it's not made clear at time of sale and dishonouring normal copyright. Like "regional settings", the USA DMCA (illegal in many countries) and DRM it's about control and corporate greed, not actually about Copyright.

The only valid copyright enforcement is to sue those that violate copyright. Not adding licences or technology that remove the rights of consumers of copyrighted works. Also copyright eventually expires. Most DRM does not.

[Quoth]

What ebook seller sells ebooks without you being able to download again later to a different device on the same account? Very few?

So leaving copyright books on an ereader is cheating the copyright holder unless you have absolutely no access to downloading them again and keep no copy. Even then you must delete all your copies. This has been proven in UK law for software even where the seller has tried to foist a restrictive licence. You can even give away or sell software in many countries as long as the next user is the ONLY one with access. Copyright is thus preserved. No backups or cloud library.

[BookCat]

But surely this is just the electronic equivalent of giving a paperback to a friend, provided no profit is made from it and that it's not done on a large scale eg. torenting?

I've often given dtb's to friends, why not ebooks? I've paid for them after all.
Maybe I'm thick, but I don't see the difference between the gift of a paperback and that of an ebook.

[Barbara1955]

Well IMO Authors Give Away their books ... so why cant I.

https://www.ereaderiq.com/

[DNSB]

Originally Posted by Barbara1955

Well IMO Authors Give Away their books ... so why cant I.

https://www.ereaderiq.com/

Perhaps because they hold the copyright and can legally make that decision?

And not all freebies are permanent freebies -- in my experience about 75% of the freebies I've looked at are only free for a limited time.

[Quoth]

I "give away" one of my books. It is NOT Public Domain and may only be copied on your own devices or backed-up. It's copyright violation to give a copy to someone else or upload it. People have to download their own copy.

A title being offered free (without charge), no matter the duration, doesn't make it Public Domain. A recipient is forbidden under International Copyright treaties and a variety of local laws to sell or give copies to anyone else.

It's the publisher or copyright holder's decision how a book is distributed or sold or "given away". Personally I don't mind someone loaning their entire ereader to a friend or family member, that IMO is like loaning a book. However because of the Cloud Library/Ability to download again without further cost, if you sell or give away an ereader, phone, tablet or laptop you must delete all ebooks still in Copyright, even if they were "free". If there is NO cloud library, no ability to download it again, then in theory you can delete all your own copies and leave the copy on the ereader, that's equivalent to giving away a book.
Essentially most ebook sellers systems mean you can only "gift" a book at time of purchase. Never later.

[Quoth]

Originally Posted by BookCat

But surely this is just the electronic equivalent of giving a paperback to a friend, provided no profit is made from it and that it's not done on a large scale eg. torenting?

I've often given dtb's to friends, why not ebooks? I've paid for them after all.
Maybe I'm thick, but I don't see the difference between the gift of a paperback and that of an ebook.

All true if you don't keep a copy and the ebook retailer doesn't offer ability to download again. So if bought on Amazon, Apple, Smashwords, Kobo etc you can't actually give away your only copy, like a paper book, because you can't "destroy" your other copies unless you delete the account where you bought it.

Whether it's free or sold is irrelevant to how copyright works. If you pass on a copy, it must only be accessible to one person and nolonger ever accessible to yourself without a fresh purchase. That's how physical books, CDs, DVDs, Software on physical media, Vinyl etc all work. If you copy it (possible for free with a paperback by cutting off spine and scanning in sheet feeder), then you MUST destroy all your copies if passing it one as a gift or by reselling.

[BookCat]

Originally Posted by FrustratedReader

If you copy it (possible for free with a paperback by cutting off spine and scanning in sheet feeder), then you MUST destroy all your copies if passing it one as a gift or by reselling.

When I was at uni, many eons ago, the library often had multiple photocopies of set reading chapters. Other photocopies would be available on short term loans because they were being frequently accessed at that time.
The point being that it appears to be legal to have multiple copies of paper books, but not ebooks. I realise there's an exception for academic/research purposes, so how does this apply to, for example, academic ebooks?

Many of the things I had to read were in continuous text, suited to an eink reader (literary criticism, philosophy etc) and much of it is probably available on eink now.

Just musing . . .

[Quoth]

Originally Posted by BookCat

The point being that it appears to be legal to have multiple copies of paper books, but not ebooks. I realise there's an exception for academic/research purposes, so how does this apply to, for example, academic ebooks?

In most cases it is not legal. Only excerpts may be copied (fair use). Buying multiple copies is what most libraries do as photocopying an entire book is (a) Copyright violation and (b) Expensive. Scanning to PDF image is far cheaper and ALSO copyright violation.

Note in most but not all countries that Copyright violation is a Civil offence (the rights holder sues for damage and no upper limit) and in some it's a Criminal offence (fixed maximum tariffs and it's up to the legal system/government to bring a case, rights holder doesn't get the fine, they STILL have to separately sue for damages).

[BookCat]

FrustratedReader: I'm speaking of the late 70s when photocopiers were huge clunky things which were only owned by libraries and certain shops. Ebooks were a twinkle in someone's eye. The library photocopies were usually just chapters etc, not whole books.

But I think that you'll find, even now, copyright exception is made both on the grounds of fair use and on the grounds of study or review. Many student versions of software, for example Microsoft Office, is hugely discounted.

But this is getting away from the point that if I give my ereader to a friend to read one of the books on it, I'm doing nothing more or less than I would if loaning them a paper book. (I actually never 'loaned' books, knowing they would not be returned I accepted that I was in fact 'giving' them.)

For the sake of argument, let's assume that I have no copies of the ebook/s on my computer, or anywhere else; so to read them again, I would need to purchase them again.

How does that infringe copyright?

[Quoth]

Originally Posted by BookCat

FrustratedReader:
But I think that you'll find, even now, copyright exception is made both on the grounds of fair use and on the grounds of study or review. Many student versions of software, for example Microsoft Office, is hugely discounted.
would not be returned I accepted that I was in fact 'giving' them.)

For the sake of argument, let's assume that I have no copies of the ebook/s on my computer, or anywhere else; so to read them again, I would need to purchase them again.

How does that infringe copyright?

Fair use doesn't / didn't encompass photocopying entire books ever. Rarely entire chapters, unless the VENDOR issued a licence in writing, as that is not "fair use" anywhere. Not all countries have a legal definition of fair use exemptions.

Student software can be sold at any price, the Vendor decides. Irrelevant to giving away stuff.

Indeed I wrote or implied it's perfectly acceptable and not a copyright violation to sell or give away a single copy of any electronic media providing you don't keep a copy and would have to repurchase. But which ebook online seller works like that?

[davidfor]

Originally Posted by BookCat

For the sake of argument, let's assume that I have no copies of the ebook/s on my computer, or anywhere else; so to read them again, I would need to purchase them again.

How does that infringe copyright?

I don't know if it infringes copyright, but it almost definitely infringes the license agreement you made with the seller when buying the book. None that I have seen allow any transferring of the license. Most are individual and exclude letting another family read the book.

[Quoth]

However many licence agreements are either actually illegal in many countries or not enforceable. They have nothing really to do with copyright. Nor indeed has the USA DMCA, which is actually contrary to interpretations of Copyright (international conventions as well as local laws) in many countries. DRM is also more about "commercial control" and not copyright. It particularly contravenes International Treaties and local laws on copyright as do many "licence" restrictions.

[BookCat]

Originally Posted by davidfor

I don't know if it infringes copyright, but it almost definitely infringes the license agreement you made with the seller when buying the book. None that I have seen allow any transferring of the license. Most are individual and exclude letting another family read the book.

If that were true, it would infringe the license to give or sell a paperback. I have bought many second or thirdhand paperbacks from charity shops and car-boot sales.