Book View: Is it just me or...

[pete6055]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

Nice tip. But again ... what's the advantage to having Preview completely obscure Code View in the first place? Why not have both visible and see the changes to html rendered in Preview in real time? Without having to waste time flipping to and fro?

I agree, but if you feel that there are too many windows competing for limited space, or you are running machines with different sized screens and different resolutions, or if you want to see more of what is in the preview window (especially a full cover and background), then you might want to decouple a few windows and resize them.

I'm not looking to revive book view. I like the changes in you made in 9.17 and started using it immediately. The only things that were a little different was PageEdit and error reporting in preview. No big deal...

Some people just take longer to settle in. If workflow never changed, even slightly, it would never improve; development and developers would stagnate . I think 9.17 strikes a nice balance so don't be disheartened by minor change resistance

[odamizu]

Originally Posted by KevinH

I am truly not sure if the people involved in posting these comments have ever even realized that Preview exists, or that Preview and CodeView are synced and can be both be accessed side by side with no toggling or clicking.

I think this is very likely. When I first started using Sigil, it was a few months before I "discovered" Preview even existed — after which I ecstatically abandoned BookView as I wasn't using it to edit, I was only using it to ... well ... preview.

CodeView/Preview was and is exactly what I want. Being able to have both open side-by-side and synced to each other is so much better than toggling back and forth between CodeView/BookView.

[Vroni]

Hi,

i used book view only to have a preview larger than i have the preview normally. I have Book browser, code view and preview, and code view is taking trhe most space. So theres only little space left for preview window. Of course you can drag the divider between the windows to resize them, but i can understand the whish of toggling between code view and preview fast, being in the center of the screen and consuming more space.

If there would be a button to switch postiob from code view and preview window would be really fine for some users.

Personally i prefer that resources are spent for other issues

[DiapDealer]

Oh trust me: I'm not discouraged by a little bit of change resistance at all!
We talked about getting rid of Book View for years. We warned that Book View was eventually going away for years. It's not my problem if people didn't listen (or assumed we'd never actually go through with it). The writing was on the wall forever. Now it's time to adjust, or stick with the versions you prefer. Both have their merits.

[MrsCatnip]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

I'm also surprised at the number of people who blindly update to the very latest version Sigil without checking out the release notes, or checking to see how the newest version is being received by other users. I understand the regulars around here and the developers always running the latest version, but I would expect casual users (and even some hard-core users) to be a little more hesitant to chase the newest version all the time. Especially if they're unaware of the changes that are in the pipeline.

Well, I feel it's a matter of device security to keep things up to date so I try to always use the most current versions unless there are known bugs in it. Most of the time these will have bugfixes for older versions and also fixes to known security issues. So I don't feel this is a "surprising" thing to do.
In my case I did not expect the amount of trouble I experienced with the switch to 9.17, since an alternative to bookview was provided. I expected a little time to get used to it - little did I know Seems I am too much of a casual user and I don't need too many of the more expert settings to know my way around at all.
The advantage book view had over just preview for me is that I find it much easier to proofread in book view and when I see a spelling error, I can correct it right away without having to look for the passage amongst a heap of code.
To me this is awesome and a huge advantage.
Or, for example: right now I am comparing two versions of a book, the end result should be the shorter version as an ebook. So I am reading hardcopy - ebook (where only the long version exists), comparing and pruning, sometimes changing whole paragraphs, rewriting some - much easier to do with book view, than in the code view, because its much easier to read AND I can make changes instantly.
I haven't had time yesterday to try out PageEdit, thanks again for the help though, and maybe this will turn out to be superior for my purposes, too.

[KevinH]

FWIW: If you click on a word in Preview, the CodeView editor will sync to the same place so there is no need to "look for the passage amongst a heap of code".

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by MrsCatnip

Well, I feel it's a matter of device security to keep things up to date so I try to always use the most current versions unless there are known bugs in it. Most of the time these will have bugfixes for older versions and also fixes to known security issues. So I don't feel this is a "surprising" thing to do.

Just so you know. There's rarely any security-related fixes in new Sigil releases. Before the very recent "Zip slip" security issue that was brought to our attention, I can't remember the last update for security purposes. We fix bugs that affect the use of Sigil, and add new features. That's about it. So unless there's something specific in the release notes that directly affects your use-case, there's rarely any need to immediately update.

[PhilippeBruno]

Originally Posted by pete6055

Philippe:

Did you know that you can simulate book view by decoupling the PREVEW WINDOW (hit F10). Drag and drop the preview window over the html viewer, resize the window to take up all or part of the available space. Use F10 instead of F2 to toggle between views. A really simple fix to give you "BOOK VIEW" again.

Interesting. Thanks for the tip.

[PhilippeBruno]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

I'm also surprised at the number of people who blindly update to the very latest version Sigil without checking out the release notes, or checking to see how the newest version is being received by other users. I understand the regulars around here and the developers always running the latest version, but I would expect casual users (and even some hard-core users) to be a little more hesitant to chase the newest version all the time. Especially if they're unaware of the changes that are in the pipeline.

Well, we get notices all the times from all of our installed applications that a new version is a click away. Yes, I usually do take a quick look at the release notes, but in the case of Sigil's book view, other that stating the it was gone for good, it did not see much more. I did search online for a more detailed explanation, perhaps giving the rational behind that decision and hopefully proposing a work around or better yet the "new better way" of working with Sigil, but I did not find much.

I do agree with those who claimed that without changes software would stagnate. But at the same time, from a change management perspective, I believe that it should not be taken for granted that users will figure out by themselves how to deal with such changes. Minimally, users should be told why and how things will work from now on. The helpful tips and ideas given to me in this thread could have been made available along the release notes.

My two cents. Thanks for your attention.

[Notjohn]

>The advantage book view had over just preview for me is that I find it much easier to proofread in book view and when I see a spelling error, I can correct it right away without having to look for the passage amongst a heap of code.
>To me this is awesome and a huge advantage.

You can proofread in Preview just as easily, whyever not?

It was years ago that after finding that editing in Book View caused gross errors (like inserting a non-breaking space whenever I hit the space bar) that I resolved never to use it again. So I was forever switching back and forth between Code View (for editing) and Book View (for viewing). The introduction of the Preview panel was a godsend, made even more wonderful by the addition of the to-and-fro shift recently added.

I appreciate that it's difficult to change an ingrained workflow, but in this case the old ways were definitely not better.

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by PhilippeBruno

I believe that it should not be taken for granted that users will figure out by themselves how to deal with such changes.

It's not taken for granted. We don't expect them to figure it all out on their own. That's why we constantly monitor these user forums on our own time for questions. There are tons of users here who are ready and willing to help with everything and anything Sigil-related. That's why we have links all over Sigil's Wiki and/or Release Notes that point here for user support questions and discussions about upcoming changes.

Originally Posted by PhilippeBruno

Minimally, users should be told why and how things will work from now on.

They are. Constantly. Here in the Official Sigil user forums. Where it's appropriate and much more convenient to discuss such things.

Originally Posted by PhilippeBruno

The helpful tips and ideas given to me in this thread could have been made available along the release notes.

People stop reading release notes that are more than a few paragraphs long with a few links. We hit the high points and then point everybody here for questions/details/discussion.

I know some people are a bit lost right now, but I don't think it's too much to ask for them to come here and search the forums to see if their question has already been answered somewhere. I can't point to these user forums any more strenuously, or frequently than I already do. Here there are hundreds of threads talking about why Book View had to go. Dozens that talk about what alternatives there are (or will be). Discussions that explain how to use new features that haven't yet been documented in the user guide, etc...

In short: there's a thriving Sigil user community here that we keep steering everyone toward every single chance we get. Where answers abound, and tips and tweaks ooze. Where warnings about the disappearance of Book View are older than dirt. Where possible workarounds to every imagined problem are legion. We can't help it if people wait until something goes completely pear-shaped on them before they decide to visit. And we're certainly not going to waste time duplicating this vast resource of Sigil knowledge anywhere else. THIS is where Sigil lives. Github is just where the development happens (and the website is strictly for announcements of new releases).

[PhilippeBruno]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

It's not taken for granted. We don't expect them to figure it all out on their own. That's why we constantly monitor these user forums on our own time for questions. There are tons of users here who are ready and willing to help with everything and anything Sigil-related. That's why we have links all over Sigil's Wiki and/or Release Notes that point here for user support questions and discussions about upcoming changes.


They are. Constantly. Here in the Official Sigil user forums. Where it's appropriate and much more convenient to discuss such things.


People stop reading release notes that are more than a few paragraphs long with a few links. We hit the high points and then point everybody here for questions/details/discussion.

I know some people are a bit lost right now, but I don't think it's too much to ask for them to come here and search the forums to see if their question has already been answered somewhere. I can't point to these user forums any more strenuously, or frequently than I already do. Here there are hundreds of threads talking about why Book View had to go. Dozens that talk about what alternatives there are (or will be). Discussions that explain how to use new features that haven't yet been documented in the user guide, etc...

In short: there's a thriving Sigil user community here that we keep steering everyone toward every single chance we get. Where answers abound, and tips and tweaks ooze. Where warnings about the disappearance of Book View are older than dirt. Where possible workarounds to every imagined problem are legion. We can't help it if people wait until something goes completely pear-shaped on them before they decide to visit. And we're certainly not going to waste time duplicating this vast resource of Sigil knowledge anywhere else. THIS is where Sigil lives. Github is just where the development happens (and the website is strictly for announcements of new releases).

Point noted. Makes perfect sense. Now that I know this place, I will hang around more often and seek for help here. Thanks for the clarifications.

[DiapDealer]

No problem. Welcome aboard!

NOTE: when using the Mobilread search function, make sure you use the "advanced search". It will give you the most granularity and allow you to limit the results to the Sigil forums.

[MrsCatnip]

Originally Posted by KevinH

FWIW: If you click on a word in Preview, the CodeView editor will sync to the same place so there is no need to "look for the passage amongst a heap of code".

This is definitely helpful, thanks.

[MrsCatnip]

Originally Posted by Notjohn

>

You can proofread in Preview just as easily, whyever not?

Of course but then I have to switch to edit. And if it's just a little typo, well... it was really comfortable to be able to do it right away. BUT this is kind of a redundant discussion and has probably been said a million times. I am more interested to see how the new solution will work out for me or if I just have to stick with an older version.
And yes, I seem to remember the problems with Book View but that was just in one version I believe. But it was irritating, true.
Again thanks a lot to the team here for the support, the answers are really very promt, it's a great job you are doing!