French + English = Globish

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by tompe

Yes, but why is the "o" omitted? Without the spell checker would never had suspected that the spelling was not similar.

English spelling is horribly irregular, and one just has to accept "that's the way it is". I really don't think there's any "logical" reason for it.

[Wetdogeared]

Originally Posted by tompe

Yes, but why is the "o" omitted? Without the spell checker would never had suspected that the spelling was not similar.

I don't know why, that's just the way it is; the way my English Grammar teacher taught me.

There are too numerous exceptions to the rules of English spelling and grammar to get into.

Enough grammar for today. I'm no specialist on the subject. I have a hard time getting it right myself. Just today I'm changing my spell checker to use UK spelling instead of US spelling.

The old adage "practise makes perfect" is the only advise I can give. WDE.

*edit* HarryT beat me to it

[Halk]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Sorry, but I think that expecting someone else to learn YOUR language is one of the major failings of those of us fortunate enough to speak English as our native language. English speakers are notoriously bad at learning other languages, and that's a very bad thing, IMHO.

That wasn't what I was saying. I'm talking about the decisions a country makes about what language it teaches children. It's better for the UK to teach Latin, Spanish and Chinese rather than French and Italian. I'm not one of those types seen in a bar on the continent saying "A PINT OF LAAARRRGER PEDRO!"

Likewise it's better for France to be less opposed to English than it is.

Languages are the barriers that prevent us communicating with each other, once the entire world can understand each other don't you think it'll be a better place to live in, for both business and culture?

I'm not suggesting that we deliberately cause the death of some languages, but aggresively enforcing them at the cost of communicating with each other is short sighted.

I also agree with Geoff about people who speak without moving their lips. I'm a slight bit hard of hearing, and I find if I can't see someone's lips move I find it difficult to 'hear' them in a noisy office.

And as for the demise of grammar it astounds me when I receive emails at work which are barely intelligible. I work in a global company, with English as the standard language and I can find it easier to understand people who have English as a second language when it comes to the written form.

[Polyglot27]

Originally Posted by Patricia

Maybe we should all learn Latin, so as to have a genuine lingua franca that inconveniences everybody equally.

It's really not such a bad idea. Now that th EU has 25 members and requiring all documents to be translated. How about all EU directives being issued in Latin and leaving it to the member states to translate them into their own language.

After all they resuscitated Hebrew and made it into a living language again. If they can do it why can't Latin be resuscitated? I readily admit that I'll be the first to be inconvenienced. Ha ha.

[Halk]

It would be easier just to use an existing language. But try getting France, Spain, Germany or the UK to agree to not using theirs :P

[Patricia]

Originally Posted by Polyglot27

It's really not such a bad idea. Now that th EU has 25 members and requiring all documents to be translated. How about all EU directives being issued in Latin and leaving it to the member states to translate them into their own language.

After all they resuscitated Hebrew and made it into a living language again. If they can do it why can't Latin be resuscitated? I readily admit that I'll be the first to be inconvenienced. Ha ha.

If it happens then I shall rite and upload a little book on "Lingua Latina Facilis Facta."

[Polyglot27]

Hidari, you seem to enjoy learning languages as much as I do myself. I went to university in Japan in the 60s and stayed there for seven years. There are so many interesting books published in Japan that will never be translated that I am glad I can read them.
Right now I am reading a lot of books by Japanese authors on the war, including first hand experiences. There is no way I could understand the view from both sides without reading it in Japanese.
Being a chikatetsu reader, do you really read ebooks on the subway?

[nekokami]

I've heard that Sanskrit is making a comeback in India as a relatively apolitical national language....

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by Polyglot27

It's really not such a bad idea. Now that th EU has 25 members and requiring all documents to be translated. How about all EU directives being issued in Latin and leaving it to the member states to translate them into their own language.

Knowledge of Latin is extremely useful. Most "complicated" words in English have Latin (or Greek) roots, and, if you recognise the root, you know what the word means even if you've never seen it before.

After all they resuscitated Hebrew and made it into a living language again. If they can do it why can't Latin be resuscitated? I readily admit that I'll be the first to be inconvenienced. Ha ha.

Latin is a "living Language". It's the official language of the Vatican, and there is, for example, a radio station in Finland which broadcasts the news in Latin:

http://www.yleradio1.fi/nuntii/

Eg:

Barack Obama praesidens inauguratus


22.01.2009, klo 18.31
Barack Obama, munus praesidentis initurus, cum proximis Philadelphiae tramen ascendit, quo Washingtoniam invectus est.

Tramen in multis stationibus restitit, ut Obama civibus loqueretur, saepe etiam lentius vehebatur, ut cives familiam praesidentis viderent.

Sollemnia inaugurationis iam die Dominico (18.1.) Washingtoniae incohata sunt.

In magnum concentum sub divo ante memoriale praesidentis Abraham Lincoln institutum celeberrimi cantores et cantrices prodierunt, in his Jon Bon Jovi, Bruce Springsteen, U2, Garth Brooks, Shakira, Beyoncé.

Compluribus centenis milibus hominum, qui ibi congregati erant, Obama, adhuc praesidens designatus, orationem habuit.

Monuit nationem esse in bello, oeconomiam in discrimine, neque facile esse illis periculis occurrere; diutius quam unum mensem aut unum annum, verisimiliter multos annos perseverandum esse, antequam illae minae averterentur.

Inauguratio die Martis facta est. Washingtoniam, ubi circiter sescenta hominum milia habitant, complures miliones hospitum convenerant.

Praestito iure iurando Obama in colle Capitolio orationem dixit, qua animos civium confirmavit: tempus esse mutationis, celeribus consiliis opus esse, ut fundamentum incrementi oeconomici crearetur; Americanos latius quam ante cum ceteris nationibus cooperaturos atque etiam cum terris musulmanorum novam viam progrediendi petituros esse.

Caerimoniis in colle Capitolio finitis praesidens iuratus cum coniuge et filiabus ad Aedes Albas, agmine autoraedarum comitante vectus est.

Ex propatulo novae domus Obama cum suis pompam sollemnem praetereuntem spectabat.

Diem festum clauserunt saltationes sollemnes, in compluribus locis institutae, in quibus omnibus praesidens cum coniuge se ostendit.

(Tuomo Pekkanen)

For those who don't know the language, the above really is extremely "elegant" classical Latin; the people who write the articles know the language very well, and have very clever ways of expressing modern concepts.

[hidari]

Originally Posted by astra

hidari

Would you disagree that mastering a foreign language is sort of a hobby for you? Hobby that you enjoy?

Perhaps at times: when I am not having a pint!

[hidari]

Originally Posted by Polyglot27

Hidari, you seem to enjoy learning languages as much as I do myself. I went to university in Japan in the 60s and stayed there for seven years. There are so many interesting books published in Japan that will never be translated that I am glad I can read them.
Right now I am reading a lot of books by Japanese authors on the war, including first hand experiences. There is no way I could understand the view from both sides without reading it in Japanese.
Being a chikatetsu reader, do you really read ebooks on the subway?

Unfortunately, My Japanese is not at your level yet. I read simple texts as I work on improving my Kanji. Yes I read on the Metro when I am not taking my mountain bike to work. I use my Sony 505 on the road (biking and subway). I use the Cybook at home. And being in Japan foreign books are expensive..So having 19th Century French and English Novels to read for free helps cut down on the expenses.... for example....

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by hidari

So having 19th Century French and English Novels to read for free helps cut down on the expenses.... for example....

For the lover of 19th century fiction (and I share your love of it, as you are probably aware) eBooks are especially beneficial. There are enormously more such books available as eBooks than one can easily find as printed books.

[astra]

Originally Posted by hidari

Perhaps at times: when I am not having a pint!

See? It is a wonderful hobby.
However, if you have different hobbies and no wish to learn a new language, and your mother tongue is English, then why bother? There is no benefit, except perhaphs, training your memory.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by astra

See? It is a wonderful hobby.
However, if you have different hobbies and no wish to learn a new language, and your mother tongue is English, then why bother? There is no benefit, except perhaphs, training your memory.

I find the study of language and linguistics to be a fascinating one. I agree with you, though, that it's not something which is essential to everyday life, although personally I do find it to be constantly useful.

[Gaurnim]

Originally Posted by astra

hidari

Would you disagree that mastering a foreign language is sort of a hobby for you? Hobby that you enjoy?

Speaking about myself, I would say yes.
If I hadn't worked in computer science, I would definitely have gone for linguistics studies.

EDIT :
But it is also part of my identity, as my father has italian roots.

Originally Posted by astra

See? It is a wonderful hobby.
However, if you have different hobbies and no wish to learn a new language, and your mother tongue is English, then why bother? There is no benefit, except perhaphs, training your memory.

As Harry says, it is not essential, indeed, but it has a lot of benefits.
As I said before, it also opens you to other cultures, something I feel is very important, for instance to reduce the fear of the unknown that plagues our modern civilisations.