How is Baen doing? - Page 2

Kali Yuga · 12-01-2010, 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lemurion

Actually, it's probably saved them....

Re-read the post, please. That was referring to Leebase's question on how cheap ebooks affected Baen's hardcover sales.

That said, I haven't seen any breakdowns of ebook vs hardcover vs paperback sales for Baen (either units sold or revenues), or annual sales figures, or net operating profits, or anything else that definitively indicates how well they're doing.

All we can say is, "they're still in business."

And that their website looks ancient. So either they can't be bothered, or can't afford to update it. Sort of like an inkblot test, don't you think?

leebase · 12-01-2010, 12:47 PM

Thanks for the heads up about their forum being Nntp based with a web wrapper. I went and got a news reader for my iPad and now it's very easy to interface.

Yes, their website seems to be an after thought. However, their online community is vibrant. I just had to get past the slow web interface, and now have by using a news reader. I still prefer web forums to news groups.

I have no idea about their financials. Having discussed the free ebooks topic with them over the last couple of days, I can say that they simply believe in the ultimate good of free access to their books. They remain solidly convinced that more sales come because of it than sales are lost.

Me, I think early books for free and reasonable priced, DRM free new and recent books would make more sense. Also, it appears that I over estimated how many of their authors give out fee versions of their new books. Only some of them do...just happened to be the authors I read. Coincidence?

Lee

Lemurion · 12-01-2010, 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kali Yuga

Re-read the post, please. That was referring to Leebase's question on how cheap ebooks affected Baen's hardcover sales.

That said, I haven't seen any breakdowns of ebook vs hardcover vs paperback sales for Baen (either units sold or revenues), or annual sales figures, or net operating profits, or anything else that definitively indicates how well they're doing.

All we can say is, "they're still in business."

And that their website looks ancient. So either they can't be bothered, or can't afford to update it. Sort of like an inkblot test, don't you think?

We also know that before they started doing cheap ebooks they didn't have any hardcover sales to speak of. There's also a lot of evidence from the Bar community that they started buying the hardcovers because of the ebooks.

It's not a guarantee - but it does make it more likely than not that the cheap ebooks were a benefit to their hardcover business.

wodin · 12-01-2010, 02:28 PM

I attended a banquet last month where one of my table mates was carrying a paper back copy of 1632 by Eric Flint. Intrigued, I noted the title and author and looked it up on Wikipedia later, then went to Baen and found it in the free library. Since I was looking for something new to read, and all of my current series were waiting for the next book to be published I went ahead and downloaded it; and enjoyed it immensely. Then I downloaded 1633 from the free library, and followed by buying two more from Bean. I’m currently reading 1634 – The Baltic Wars, and will probably buy more of the series.

All of that being said; I would happily put up with DRM and pay a few dollars more to get them from Amazon, if they were available there, in order to avail myself of the WhisperSync feature. It’s not available for side loaded books, and I miss it mightily since I like reading on multiple platforms.

pdurrant · 12-01-2010, 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wodin

All of that being said; I would happily put up with DRM and pay a few dollars more to get them from Amazon, if they were available there, in order to avail myself of the WhisperSync feature. It’s not available for side loaded books, and I miss it mightily since I like reading on multiple platforms.

As far as I know the situation is this: Baen are in discussions with Amazon about getting their books in the Kindle store, but the sticking point seems to be DRM. Baen don't want it, and Amazon aren't set up to not use it on a publisher's catalogue (as opposed to through their dtp system).

whitearrow · 12-02-2010, 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by starrigger

Someone commented that they ought to have more Tor backlist books. I don't think they have any Tor books anymore. I don't know exactly what happened there, but I think it might have been Tor's decision to use DRM, which Baen doesn't.

When I first bought my Kindle 1, I thought Tor was the greatest publisher ever. They were giving out a free book every week or so. (And I often ended up buying the remainder in a series based on those free books.)

Now they don't give anything away (except short stories occasionally) and are just like the rest of the big name publishers.

So sad. I would never have read Mistborn if I didn't get it as a free Tor book.

Blue Tyson · 12-02-2010, 06:31 PM

Worse, actually, because they often do not bother to have ebooks at all.

snipenekkid · 12-03-2010, 01:02 AM

I am just asking this here because I have been wanting to spend more time on the Baen Bar but like others I find the interface so kludgey....soooooo, speaking of the NNTP group for Baen's Bar...I haven't regularly read newsgroups for a loooog time. Almost back to just a few years post Compuserve being the only practical way for the average person to access the web and send and receive email. Ok, maybe not that long but more like since Netscape ruled the Windows browser wars, had a great email client as well as NNTP reader...needless to say, what are some of the nicer Windows based newsreaders these days?

I could use a Linux based reader if I setup a VPC running Ubuntu (I guess that is a reasonable Linux OS for a non-ix guy.

I know I can use google but folks here are more on on top of things as a rule. I prefer Windows but just don't look forward to scouring Source Forge or even CNET Downloads...

I also suppose we can use Calibre to download NNTP feeds? And of course a reasonably fast browser based NNTP client might work as well.

I looked at Thunderbird a while back but it was a few years ago now and not very stable/polished.

I always preferred newsgroups over forums and took forever to get comfy with forums until we got nice editors and some dominant forum software so every site does not need have a new learning curve.

Thanks for any suggestions while I try a bit of searching. Or, am I wasting time because newsgroup spamming is even worse today than a decade back? Where has the past decade gone?

twobits · 12-03-2010, 03:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by snipenekkid

not that long but more like since Netscape ruled the Windows browser wars, had a great email client as well as NNTP reader...needless to say, what are some of the nicer Windows based newsreaders these days?

I could use a Linux based reader if I setup a VPC running Ubuntu (I guess that is a reasonable Linux OS for a non-ix guy.

Well if you liked the netscape one, seamonkey is the current version of that.

snipenekkid · 12-03-2010, 04:50 AM

thanks...will take a look at it...

emellaich · 12-03-2010, 09:27 PM

IMO, there are two answers to the OP.

Baen the publisher (pbooks and ebooks) and Baen's bar. I don't see evidence either way on growing success or failure of the publisher. However, I certainly hear more about them these days on the internet, and I suspect (and hope) that they continue to thrive.

However, their bar is not what it once was. Their software has always been slow and clunky. Their forum was popular, however, for two reasons. First, it was one of the few places to chat about these topics. Secondly, you could visit the bar and rub shoulders with your favorite authors.

I don't really think their software has become worse, it just has become comparatively worse. I don't know where it is hosted today, but for the longest time, Arnold kept the server in his home instead of moving to a professional, high-speed hosting center. Either Arnold or Baen were very concerned with legacy support: NNTP + Email + Web. It became more and more painful to use the bar when there were increasing forums available with high speed connections.

Meanwhile, life happened with the Baen authors. Weber was double-blessed with adoptions and child birth. Lackey had a falling out. Bujold switched her writing to another publisher (until her recent book). Ringo was burnt out on arguing with contentious fans. Flint became overloaded with both his writing and his illness.

Bottom line is that some of the energy drained from the Bar for me. There are still folks there -- they see Baen as more like family. But it doesn't seem like the same level of participation as in the past.

But back to the original question. I believe that Baen is alive and well. In fact, thriving. It appears to me, however, that the bar is not quite as energetic as it used to be.

pwalker8 · 12-04-2010, 10:08 AM

To a great extent, a large part of Baen's success was because of how close he was to the fans and how accessible he made his top authors to the fans. His web board was around before he started doing ebooks in 1998. It was run by Arnold Bailey, who had been very active on the old BIX forums and was thus quite experienced with online communities.

A large group of fans became very loyal to Jim Baen, Baen Books and the various authors because of this. Jim Baen also, in part because he was so close to the fans, became quite good at picking books that his audience liked. For a long period of time, if Baen published four new books in a month, I would like at least three of them. He had quite a stable of authors and as one author moved on, a new author moved in to take that author's place.

He was also very, very good at building interest and excitement in new books about to be published. He started the "snippet" campaign of putting up a series of brief extracts of an anticipated book in the months prior to it's publication. That doesn't really do justice to how he managed to whip up the anticipation for the new book. He truly was masterful and knew his audience quite well.

In the last year or two of his life, he seemed to hit a dry spell. He wasn't as involved on the web site and new authors weren't coming in as much. His forums were being run by a group of moderators rather than by Baen, Arnold Bailey and the authors. Cliques started to form.

Since his death, things seem to have gone downhill even more. It seems they are doing more and more reprints of older books (which is good since I finally get those older books as ebooks) and omnibus books and less new books. They do have a couple of new authors who seem to be interesting (Vanner and Correia) but over the last few years, the number of new books that I really liked has dropped quite a bit. I still buy the websubscription books each month, but that's more to get the older books as ebooks than anything else.

I've pretty much given up on most of the forums on baen's web board now. I monitor three forums to see what new books to coming out and what's going on at Baen books but that's about it.

The mobileread forum (i.e. this forum) kind of reminds me of the baen webboard at it's prime. No obvious cliques that I've noticed, the moderators keep things in line without appearing to take sides, and while there are certain repetitive topics, there is enough interesting conversation to make me keep coming back when I have the time. Of course, these are interesting times in the ebook community.

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12-01-2010, 12:47 PM	#17
leebase Karma Kameleon Posts: 2,934 Karma: 26616647 Join Date: Aug 2009 Device: iPad Mini, iPhone X, Kindle Fire Tab HD 8, Walmart Onn	Thanks for the heads up about their forum being Nntp based with a web wrapper. I went and got a news reader for my iPad and now it's very easy to interface. Yes, their website seems to be an after thought. However, their online community is vibrant. I just had to get past the slow web interface, and now have by using a news reader. I still prefer web forums to news groups. I have no idea about their financials. Having discussed the free ebooks topic with them over the last couple of days, I can say that they simply believe in the ultimate good of free access to their books. They remain solidly convinced that more sales come because of it than sales are lost. Me, I think early books for free and reasonable priced, DRM free new and recent books would make more sense. Also, it appears that I over estimated how many of their authors give out fee versions of their new books. Only some of them do...just happened to be the authors I read. Coincidence? Lee

12-01-2010, 02:28 PM	#19
wodin Illiterate Posts: 10,279 Karma: 37848716 Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: The Sandwich Isles Device: Samsung Galaxy S10+, Microsoft Surface Pro	I attended a banquet last month where one of my table mates was carrying a paper back copy of 1632 by Eric Flint. Intrigued, I noted the title and author and looked it up on Wikipedia later, then went to Baen and found it in the free library. Since I was looking for something new to read, and all of my current series were waiting for the next book to be published I went ahead and downloaded it; and enjoyed it immensely. Then I downloaded 1633 from the free library, and followed by buying two more from Bean. I’m currently reading 1634 – The Baltic Wars, and will probably buy more of the series. All of that being said; I would happily put up with DRM and pay a few dollars more to get them from Amazon, if they were available there, in order to avail myself of the WhisperSync feature. It’s not available for side loaded books, and I miss it mightily since I like reading on multiple platforms.

12-02-2010, 06:31 PM	#22
Blue Tyson Blue Captain Posts: 1,595 Karma: 5000236 Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Australia Device: Kindle Keyboard 3G,Huawei Ideos X3,Kobo Mini	Worse, actually, because they often do not bother to have ebooks at all.

12-03-2010, 01:02 AM	#23
snipenekkid Banned Posts: 760 Karma: 51034 Join Date: Feb 2009	I am just asking this here because I have been wanting to spend more time on the Baen Bar but like others I find the interface so kludgey....soooooo, speaking of the NNTP group for Baen's Bar...I haven't regularly read newsgroups for a loooog time. Almost back to just a few years post Compuserve being the only practical way for the average person to access the web and send and receive email. Ok, maybe not that long but more like since Netscape ruled the Windows browser wars, had a great email client as well as NNTP reader...needless to say, what are some of the nicer Windows based newsreaders these days? I could use a Linux based reader if I setup a VPC running Ubuntu (I guess that is a reasonable Linux OS for a non-ix guy. I know I can use google but folks here are more on on top of things as a rule. I prefer Windows but just don't look forward to scouring Source Forge or even CNET Downloads... I also suppose we can use Calibre to download NNTP feeds? And of course a reasonably fast browser based NNTP client might work as well. I looked at Thunderbird a while back but it was a few years ago now and not very stable/polished. I always preferred newsgroups over forums and took forever to get comfy with forums until we got nice editors and some dominant forum software so every site does not need have a new learning curve. Thanks for any suggestions while I try a bit of searching. Or, am I wasting time because newsgroup spamming is even worse today than a decade back? Where has the past decade gone?

12-03-2010, 04:50 AM	#25
snipenekkid Banned Posts: 760 Karma: 51034 Join Date: Feb 2009	thanks...will take a look at it...

12-03-2010, 09:27 PM	#26
emellaich Wizard Posts: 1,101 Karma: 4388403 Join Date: Oct 2007 Device: Palm>Ebookman>IPaq>Axim>Cybook>Kndl2>IPAD>Kndl3SO>Voyager>Oasis	IMO, there are two answers to the OP. Baen the publisher (pbooks and ebooks) and Baen's bar. I don't see evidence either way on growing success or failure of the publisher. However, I certainly hear more about them these days on the internet, and I suspect (and hope) that they continue to thrive. However, their bar is not what it once was. Their software has always been slow and clunky. Their forum was popular, however, for two reasons. First, it was one of the few places to chat about these topics. Secondly, you could visit the bar and rub shoulders with your favorite authors. I don't really think their software has become worse, it just has become comparatively worse. I don't know where it is hosted today, but for the longest time, Arnold kept the server in his home instead of moving to a professional, high-speed hosting center. Either Arnold or Baen were very concerned with legacy support: NNTP + Email + Web. It became more and more painful to use the bar when there were increasing forums available with high speed connections. Meanwhile, life happened with the Baen authors. Weber was double-blessed with adoptions and child birth. Lackey had a falling out. Bujold switched her writing to another publisher (until her recent book). Ringo was burnt out on arguing with contentious fans. Flint became overloaded with both his writing and his illness. Bottom line is that some of the energy drained from the Bar for me. There are still folks there -- they see Baen as more like family. But it doesn't seem like the same level of participation as in the past. But back to the original question. I believe that Baen is alive and well. In fact, thriving. It appears to me, however, that the bar is not quite as energetic as it used to be.

12-04-2010, 10:08 AM	#27
pwalker8 Grand Sorcerer Posts: 7,195 Karma: 70314280 Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Atlanta, GA Device: iPad Pro, iPad mini, Kobo Aura, Amazon paperwhite, Sony PRS-T2	To a great extent, a large part of Baen's success was because of how close he was to the fans and how accessible he made his top authors to the fans. His web board was around before he started doing ebooks in 1998. It was run by Arnold Bailey, who had been very active on the old BIX forums and was thus quite experienced with online communities. A large group of fans became very loyal to Jim Baen, Baen Books and the various authors because of this. Jim Baen also, in part because he was so close to the fans, became quite good at picking books that his audience liked. For a long period of time, if Baen published four new books in a month, I would like at least three of them. He had quite a stable of authors and as one author moved on, a new author moved in to take that author's place. He was also very, very good at building interest and excitement in new books about to be published. He started the "snippet" campaign of putting up a series of brief extracts of an anticipated book in the months prior to it's publication. That doesn't really do justice to how he managed to whip up the anticipation for the new book. He truly was masterful and knew his audience quite well. In the last year or two of his life, he seemed to hit a dry spell. He wasn't as involved on the web site and new authors weren't coming in as much. His forums were being run by a group of moderators rather than by Baen, Arnold Bailey and the authors. Cliques started to form. Since his death, things seem to have gone downhill even more. It seems they are doing more and more reprints of older books (which is good since I finally get those older books as ebooks) and omnibus books and less new books. They do have a couple of new authors who seem to be interesting (Vanner and Correia) but over the last few years, the number of new books that I really liked has dropped quite a bit. I still buy the websubscription books each month, but that's more to get the older books as ebooks than anything else. I've pretty much given up on most of the forums on baen's web board now. I monitor three forums to see what new books to coming out and what's going on at Baen books but that's about it. The mobileread forum (i.e. this forum) kind of reminds me of the baen webboard at it's prime. No obvious cliques that I've noticed, the moderators keep things in line without appearing to take sides, and while there are certain repetitive topics, there is enough interesting conversation to make me keep coming back when I have the time. Of course, these are interesting times in the ebook community.

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