02-25-2012, 08:58 AM | #121 |
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I live in an old house. It once had coal furnaces. Those were replaced with a central heating system - I feel no obligation towards the coal delivery companies, and I certainly will not give them any of my money. I have moved on and their business model has nothing to offer to me any more.
That, in a nutshell, is the dilemma of the content distribution business. Trying to adapt to changing and evolving markets is a challenge. Not being able to meet the challenge they declare themselves "welfare mommies" - someone else should give them the framework to sustain their business model? If you're not delivering the same amount of service as before - why should the asking price be the same? A book has, apart from the well deserved authors royalties, also the cost of fabrication, marketing and distribution factored in, as well as the cost for warehousing and last but not least the cost of up-fronting the capital for all of the before. No printing, no binding, no transportation cost, diminished distro cost, no capital lockup in warehousing. Sounds like a great way to get the same content out at much lower cost to the consumer, doesn't it? Stephen King - "Der Anschlag" (Original title: 11/22/63: A Novel) German Hardcover Ed. @ Amazon.de: € 26.99 German Kindle Editon @*Amazon.de € 21.99 Only 18.5% less - despite a vastly lesser cost base? It gets worse: Stephen King - "11/22/63: A Novel" US Hardcover Ed. @ Amazon.de: $ 17.49 US Kindle Editon @*Amazon.de $ 16.17 Here the digital issue is only 7.5% below the print edition. Who are they kidding. Lower cost, higher revenue and they eliminate the re-sale value to the buyer with the DRM nonsense? I'm not convinced. |
02-25-2012, 09:49 AM | #122 | |||
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Looks to me like the MAJORITY of academic studies say that unauthorized downloads(piracy + casual sharing) is hurting the recording industry. One could even call it a consensus. Then there is the report of the General Accounting Office of the US government - the same administration that rejected SOPA, so there is no doubt of its even handedness. Quote:
Whats interesting is that why many, many piracy-friendly posters could ever say stuff like " there's no evidence that piracy is a problem" and "independent studies confirm that piracy causes no harm" . I believe its confirmation bias . You come to a conclusion that you like ("Piracy-no problem!"), then you look ONLY for confirming evidence ( read only Ars Technica, Torrent Freak, Teleread, and such piracy-friendly blogs). Finally, you take it as a given that your comforting conclusion is undisputed truth, and "objective " observers could only see it your way. Look , it would be nice if we lived in a world of unicorns and rainbows, where piracy isn't a problem. But here on Earth Prime , it actually is and you don't have to be a servant of the content industries to understand this. Last edited by stonetools; 02-25-2012 at 10:45 AM. |
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02-25-2012, 10:11 AM | #123 | |
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02-25-2012, 10:17 AM | #124 | |
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I must say that I find it astonishing that someone who styles himself Ninjalawyer should be so friendly to massive violation of the laws or should be so dismissive of the idea that IP rights should be protected. I understand that most posters are simply consumers. They don't understand that without secure IP property rights, content creators won't create , and that arts and science will not flourish . The founding fathers understood that, and thought it so important that they put it in the Constitution. You should understand that too. |
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02-25-2012, 10:30 AM | #125 | |
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The corporations, meanwhile, want people to have access to digital entertainment when they decide to make it available, with the result that people who would have been prepared to pay for it turn to pirate sites instead. While there they see all this other stuff they can have for free so they download it, and it all ends up as an exercise in collecting computer files that they never get around to looking at/listening to. When you add up the costs of faster than otherwise necessary internet connection and blank media costs for all the computer files they are collecting, it would add up to a lot more than it would cost them to just buy the products they actually do want to look at/use. But one thing digital priacy can definitely be blamed for is all the hardware devices that have been created specifically to play unauthorised digital content on. DivX players, mp3 players, ebook readers, none of those would have existed if it wasn't for piracy. |
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02-25-2012, 11:18 AM | #126 | |||
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Of course, that's all a bit irrelevant. I've never actually said there's no impact on piracy. I've always maintained that piracy is mainly the result of under-served customers by entertainment industries that are having trouble keeping pace with technology change. Piracy is a problem (the extent of which is highly debatable as show by the study you quote), but I don't necessarily think intrusive laws are the right answer; legislation in general is a heavy hammer, and shouldn't be the go-to response for every problem. In addition, there's a report here that shows that people are spending more money then ever on the entertainment industry. I add this only to put this debate in the proper context - i.e. that for all the entertainment industry's whining about piracy, they're actually making more money than ever. And since studies are fun and quoting them is even more fun, a very recent, very comprehensive Canadian study (found here) stated the following with respect to the effectiveness of tougher laws in developing countries (the focus of the study): Quote:
And finally, this scathing commentary: Quote:
Last edited by Ninjalawyer; 02-25-2012 at 11:21 AM. |
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02-25-2012, 11:36 AM | #127 | |||
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No need to be sorry, but even if you are it actually it isn't wrong at all.
What I said was: "every independent study I'm aware of concludes that pirates have either little, none or a positive impact on sales." I've underlined the important parts. Firstly: independent. To repeat: research that is funded by an interested party is worthless, or very often worse than worthless, in that it is often commissioned purely to obfuscate the issue. Secondly: [that] I'm aware of. I have obviously not read every independent study, but I have perused all those most well known and many not so well known. In regards to all those I have come across, been made aware of, or unearthed myself (probably 30-35 in all) every one has concluded as I stated. In other words: not dead wrong at all. As far as the document you link to, I've no idea if it is in fact an independent study in itself. Hence I have no way of determining whether or not is has any value (according to my own standards). I can no doubt find out by doing a little digging, but not right now. Secondly I have no way of reading the vast majority of the sources it lists and hence I can verify neither their quality, their conclusions, nor their independence for myself. Just saying they're independent does not make them so. Finally and most peculiarly: none of the most publicised independent studies are are among those listed among Dr. Tschmuck's references. It can hardly be an oversight, so presumably it must be by design. I find this very strange, if not outright suspect. Quote:
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Personally I am neither for or against piracy, just like I am neither for or against gravity. The two are almost equally inevitable and almost equally pointless to attempt to negate. If piracy could be stopped completely, or even substantially, I would have no issue with that whatsoever, but neither will ever happen. What I am against is what I am convinced (partly on the basis of all the independent research I've read) are the blatant lies told by those who sell us entertainment and who wish to adopt draconian measures in order to ensure their survival, rather than to evolve with the times. Last edited by Belfaborac; 02-25-2012 at 11:45 AM. |
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02-25-2012, 12:34 PM | #128 | |||
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OK, I'm going to pass over whether you established that independent studies actually supported your specific claim.
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The Obama Administration in its SOPA response, had this to say , on piracy and the need for legislation: Quote:
Now in agreement with you it calls for more than just law enforcement and legislation. But it does say new legislation is needed. As to the study you cited, here is another lawyer 's response , from the same source: Quote:
Last edited by stonetools; 02-25-2012 at 01:26 PM. |
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02-25-2012, 12:45 PM | #129 |
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02-25-2012, 12:47 PM | #130 | |||||
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02-25-2012, 12:56 PM | #131 |
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despite the (debatable) effects of piracy, the music industry is larger than ever:
http://www.techdirt.com/skyisrising/ More revenue, more total sales...the biggest change is that people buy a lot more singles now because they've realized that most albums are 2 good singles with 8-12 songs of filler. Video games, film, TV and books are also substantially bigger than ever despite the so-called crippling effects of piracy. Really, I wish I should be so lucky as these schmoes. |
02-25-2012, 01:11 PM | #132 | |||||
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Once I come across a verifiably independent study which concludes that piracy is a significant problem, I'll happily both read it and link to it in further debates. Should the number of such studies ever reach the number which today concludes otherwise, then I'll happily begin to re-evaluate my stance. Quote:
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02-25-2012, 01:19 PM | #133 | |
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Do the content creator advocates exaggerate claims of damages? Sure they do. BOTH sides exaggerate: the content creator advocates and the piracy advocates who claim that piracy is harmless or beneficial. However, both the GAO and the scholarly consensus have concluded that piracy is indeed harmful-though to a lesser extent than claimed by industry advocates. Faced with that evidence, my approach is to keep on open mind, but to accept the scholarly consensus going forward. ( That's my approach to all kinds of disputed factual issues , from evolution to climate change). if the scholarly consensus changes, then I'll happily go over to the pro piracy side. Hey , its the most convenient side-download stuff for FREE!! What could go wrong? Of course, what's convenient in short term usually is bad long term. Its what I call the passenger pigeon problem. In the 19th C, the passenger pigeon was the most abundant bird in North America. Its flocks darkened the sky.What could possibly be wrong with shooting all the passenger pigeons you could want, for fun and profit? The hunters resisted conservation laws as an unreasonable and unenforceable restriction on their " rights". And so the good times lasted-right up until the year when the passenger pigeon flocks did not come. Right now we live in a society where artists can freely create and distribute works for a living. We take that living away and just as the passenger pigeon flocks melted away, so too will the artists and their works |
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02-25-2012, 01:24 PM | #134 |
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Actually, I was trying to be nice-its clear that studies cited do not establish Ninjalawyer's claim that the decline in music industry revenues had anything to do with any price fixing case.
Last edited by stonetools; 02-25-2012 at 02:06 PM. |
02-25-2012, 01:26 PM | #135 |
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