Reading the Classics via The Well Educated Mind

[issybird]

Originally Posted by pwalker8

To each his or her own. It can be surprising exactly much of what we know about ancient history is based on ancient texts. Certainly, for many historical figures, much of what we know about them is based on one or two ancient text.

Ancient texts have their place and it’s an important one. But for a work that bills itself as a history, you really can’t ignore the developments in archaeology, chemistry, biology, physics - or sheer logic, for that matter. I enjoy ancient texts. But in terms of understanding exactly what went on, they’re enlightening but also sadly lacking. There’s no justification not to acknowledge the breakthroughs in those fields. Unless it’s a literary survey, and again, nothing wrong with that. But it ain’t history unless I missed the memo and it’s still 1650.

[issybird]

Originally Posted by Catlady

Unlike so many others, when I read a book, I plow straight through, no other books allowed to interrupt. So I don't know how any timetable with specific benchmarks would work for me.

For me, it’s a reality check. Nothing wrong and everything right with plowing ahead, but if I”m falling behind, benchmarks let me know I’m screwing up.

As does Jon, I generally have several books on the go. I blush to confess that sometimes a book falls through the cracks (and sometimes it’s a book I like a lot) and I lose the drift entirely. And then what? Start over? Pick it up where I left off, knowing that I’ll have forgotten much? I don’t have an answer.

The online read this spring of War and Peace is a good example. Some days I could have kept on going, and I admit I lost some of the grand sweep of the novel in keeping to the schedule. But for me, that was more than offset by the fact that I actually did pick it up every day, even if I wasn’t in the mood, and ground out the daily stint. It could all too easily have been another case of, “I’ll catch up tomorrow,” but tomorrow keeps getting put off. (I admit that when the end was in sight, I did plow ahead.)

But it’s very much a situation of to each, her own!

[Loosheesh]

As I'll be following the process outlined in the TWEM book, I can't/won't follow a schedule per se. For the first stage (grammar), I'll plow through and only stop to quickly jot down quick notes (impressions, questions etc). At the second stage (logic), I'll review my notes/highlights and attempt to answer Bauer's suggested questions, and the last stage (rhetoric) is for formulating my opinion of the novel and entering the discussion to hear what everyone else thinks.

This may only be a buddy read for some, but I'm treating it as a self-education project, so my approach may be a bit protracted.

My suggestion: There are 74 chapters - we can work out a schedule and end date from that, and each person can read according to their preference, either following the schedule or simply reading to complete the book at the end date. Those who follow the schedule can choose to stop at these marked points for discussion, and those of us who are plowing through can read to the end and join in the discussion afterward. What do you think?

[hobnail]

Originally Posted by pwalker8

To each his or her own. It can be surprising exactly much of what we know about ancient history is based on ancient texts. Certainly, for many historical figures, much of what we know about them is based on one or two ancient text.

Peter Green wrote a book, Alexander of Macedon and in the preface or beginning of the book he says that the earliest writings about Alexander the Great were written hundreds of years after his life (300 or 700). I'd also read a book about the early history of Christianity and he said that the earliest books in the New Testament were written 70 years after the life of Jesus, thus none were written by anyone who was alive when Jesus was.

[pwalker8]

Originally Posted by hobnail

Peter Green wrote a book, Alexander of Macedon and in the preface or beginning of the book he says that the earliest writings about Alexander the Great were written hundreds of years after his life (300 or 700). I'd also read a book about the early history of Christianity and he said that the earliest books in the New Testament were written 70 years after the life of Jesus, thus none were written by anyone who was alive when Jesus was.

There is a difference between the earliest writings and the earliest writings that we have copies of. There were quite a few people who were contemporaries of Alexander who wrote about him, but we don't have any copies of those works. We just have references to those works by later writers. The Greek historian Arrian used the writings of Ptolemy I, one of Alexander's generals and Aristobulus, an officer in Alexander's army for his history of Alexander's campaigns.

[gmw]

Originally Posted by pwalker8

There is a difference between the earliest writings and the earliest writings that we have copies of. There were quite a few people who were contemporaries of Alexander who wrote about him, but we don't have any copies of those works. We just have references to those works by later writers. The Greek historian Arrian used the writings of Ptolemy I, one of Alexander's generals and Aristobulus, an officer in Alexander's army for his history of Alexander's campaigns.

Chinese whispers was a fun game. Curious to see that Wikipedia says North Americans call this game "telephone".

[pwalker8]

Originally Posted by gmw

Chinese whispers was a fun game. Curious to see that Wikipedia says North Americans call this game "telephone".

Not particularly curious given how teens use to gossip on the telephone. Yes, there is that particular aspect, we don't know if a writer is accurately conveying the information in the book, but then again, we know that copyist frequently will either miscopy or slip in something when they copy. For the most part, we can be reasonably confident in broad actions, i.e. that Alexander existed, the various battles and such. The details, not so much. There are a couple of different versions of how he died. That's why it's best to have multiple unique sources (i.e. not two people using the same source material) and compare them. Not really an option when you go back farther and farther in history.

[astrangerhere]

I am intrigued. I am #1 in line for holds at my library.

[dublincheri]

Oddly enough I have that translation on my Kindle. Motivation to actually read it would be nice!

[BelleZora]

The Edith Grossman Don Quixote is on sale today for $2.99 at Amazon.

https://www.amazon.com/Don-Quixote-M.../?tag=mr060-20

[svenlind]

Originally Posted by BelleZora

The Edith Grossman Don Quixote is on sale today for $2.99 at Amazon.

https://www.amazon.com/Don-Quixote-M.../?tag=mr060-20

Thank You

[ElspethB]

I was just coming here to share this info, but BelleZora beat me to it!

Originally Posted by BelleZora

The Edith Grossman Don Quixote is on sale today for $2.99 at Amazon.

https://www.amazon.com/Don-Quixote-M.../?tag=mr060-20

[astrangerhere]

Originally Posted by astrangerhere

I am intrigued. I am #1 in line for holds at my library.

Well, I did get my copy from the library and I was largely underwhelmed. The introductory material about the trivium was interesting, but not new to me. As for the guided reading - you would find almost the same lists in any graduate program as in each genre, her list is largely the recognized "THE CANNON." In fact, if you want a checklist, you can find all the books she lists in the book here without the outlay.

I have no desire to start an argument about the cannon, but I think if you followed her suggestion of reading chronologically, you could get just as much as the Harvard Classics to then guide you into modern reading that you could likely curate for yourself.

*disclaimer - I did not attend public school and was likely educated in the classical manner even if not in name.

[pwalker8]

Originally Posted by astrangerhere

Well, I did get my copy from the library and I was largely underwhelmed. The introductory material about the trivium was interesting, but not new to me. As for the guided reading - you would find almost the same lists in any graduate program as in each genre, her list is largely the recognized "THE CANNON." In fact, if you want a checklist, you can find all the books she lists in the book here without the outlay.

I have no desire to start an argument about the cannon, but I think if you followed her suggestion of reading chronologically, you could get just as much as the Harvard Classics to then guide you into modern reading that you could likely curate for yourself.

*disclaimer - I did not attend public school and was likely educated in the classical manner even if not in name.

Well, if you read the intro, you would note that the point of the book is that it's oriented towards helping someone who does not have a classic liberal arts education, educate themselves with the classic books. Yea, you get the same book list, but a secondary point is the engage in meaning discussion of the various books, i.e. force yourself to actually think about the books. It's the sort if thing that I first started doing in the 7th grade at school, but a lot of people didn't have the advantage of that sort of education. Her ideal seems to be something much like those book clubs that a lot of people belong to where everyone read the same book then gets together to discuss it. I suspect this type of activity tends to appeal to a certain type of personality.

[HLS]

I am trying to read all of HP Lovecraft. I consider him a classic. I tried to read Emma by Jane Austin and it was so boring I stopped. I read Lord of the Flies but other than that Classics dont interest me much.