Received Kindle as gift; have questions

[Elfwreck]

My daughter was given a Kindle by her grandfather, who has no idea how ebooks or ebook readers work.

I don't like it. I'm one of those "rant about the evils of Amazon, DRM and the Kindle" people. (Thought I should put the disclaimer up front.) She doesn't like it, but at least some of that is just carryover bias; mom doesn't like it; mom knows All About Ebooks, ergo, there must be something wrong with it.

It'd seem rude at best to just sell it and get an ebook reader I understand. Maybe I'm overlooking the Kindle's good features? Besides, I would like to know how they work.

I'd *love* some advice on how to use this thing, so she could at least give it a fair test before deciding whether or not she likes it. Issues:

1) We don't do DRM. At all. Of any sort. Won't be buying from Amazon.

2) We won't be setting up an account at Amazon. (Am not giving access to my credit card to a 14-year-old and whichever of her friends she decides to share the thing with.) I gather this may hamper some of the Kindle's more nifty features.

3) The button arrangement makes no sense to me. Advices here would be VERY VERY WELCOME. The manual is, like most manuals, something that will obviously make a lot more sense after I understand how the device works.

4) Have not yet connected it to a computer. When I do, what can I expect? Will I see a nice little collection of folders into which I can start throwing .pdb files?

5) Any general-overview, getting-started advice would be welcome. All the Amazon instructions are focused on "here's how you start buying books, which we won't be doing. (At least, not from them.)

I'll try to be polite in my responses, and I promise to actually consider what people say about the benefits of the Kindle.

[chilady1]

I don't mean to sound offensive or nasty, but given everything you have said in your post and you overall dislike of the product, why not return it (Amazon provides a 30 day window to return) or sell it. It clearly sounds like the Kindle is not the product for you or your daughter, based on the list you provided. Just a thought!

[kindlekitten]

Originally Posted by chilady1

I don't mean to sound offensive or nasty, but given everything you have said in your post and you overall dislike of the product, why not return it (Amazon provides a 30 day window to return) or sell it. It clearly sounds like the Kindle is not the product for you or your daughter, based on the list you provided. Just a thought!

keep up. it was a gift from the grandfather.

ok, elfwreck, the only buttons you really need are the home (the house) (and I am working off of a K1, so sorry), the alt and font buttons, and the <- arrow along with the toggle switch. go to smashwords, find books you like, download them to your computer, go to calibre, download it, drag the titles to calibre that you want it to work with, plug your kindle in, right click on the send to device, send it to the kindle, wait for the silver wheel to finish spinning, unplug the kindle, move the cursor to the book, click, read!

[AnemicOak]

Originally Posted by Elfwreck

4) Have not yet connected it to a computer. When I do, what can I expect? Will I see a nice little collection of folders into which I can start throwing .pdb files?

There will be a folder called documents, you just drag your books there. You'll want Mobipocket format (.prc or .mobi, not .pdb). You can also put the books in folders by author inside the documents folder if you want to keep the directory more organized.



I guess if there is a benefit to the Kindle it's that it's probably one of the simplest devices on the market to use. The dictionary is a nice feature for some as well and so is being able to search the text.

Not sure what you're looking for instruction wise as it pretty much 'just works'. You use the joystick to move up and down your list of books, press the joystick to select whatever is underlined at the time and use the page turn buttons to change the pages (obviously). Menu will let you select various tasks like adding highlights and bookmarks, accessing the table of contents (if there is one), toggle wireless on/off. Back will bring you back to the page you were reading if you do an extended dictionary lookup.


Sounds like you already don't link or want it around. Might be best to return it for something else? Out of the readers I own I use the Kindle the most and find it the most comfortable to read on, but that will be a very individual thing.

[poohbear_nc]

Originally Posted by Elfwreck

My daughter was given a Kindle by her grandfather, who has no idea how ebooks or ebook readers work.

I don't like it. I'm one of those "rant about the evils of Amazon, DRM and the Kindle" people. (Thought I should put the disclaimer up front.) She doesn't like it, but at least some of that is just carryover bias; mom doesn't like it; mom knows All About Ebooks, ergo, there must be something wrong with it.

It'd seem rude at best to just sell it and get an ebook reader I understand. Maybe I'm overlooking the Kindle's good features? Besides, I would like to know how they work.

I'd *love* some advice on how to use this thing, so she could at least give it a fair test before deciding whether or not she likes it. Issues:

1) We don't do DRM. At all. Of any sort. Won't be buying from Amazon.

2) We won't be setting up an account at Amazon. (Am not giving access to my credit card to a 14-year-old and whichever of her friends she decides to share the thing with.) I gather this may hamper some of the Kindle's more nifty features.

3) The button arrangement makes no sense to me. Advices here would be VERY VERY WELCOME. The manual is, like most manuals, something that will obviously make a lot more sense after I understand how the device works.

4) Have not yet connected it to a computer. When I do, what can I expect? Will I see a nice little collection of folders into which I can start throwing .pdb files?

5) Any general-overview, getting-started advice would be welcome. All the Amazon instructions are focused on "here's how you start buying books, which we won't be doing. (At least, not from them.)

I'll try to be polite in my responses, and I promise to actually consider what people say about the benefits of the Kindle.

Well - assuming it's a recent gift you have a Kindle2 - or what Amazon calls the Kindle. If you don't register it to an account, you won't have access to any updates (and the 2.5 update coming this month has folders for organization) to the firmware.

You need to get used to using the joy stick to navigate within books and to enter other menus.

There are non-Amazon sources to purchase books (pick non-DRM mobi or prc formats). There are scripts in the wild to remove DRM from Amazon books. There are scripts in the wild to remove DRM and shift formats to be readable on the Kindle. There are a lot of sites with free PD books to download (starting here at MR) - check the Wiki.

Currently calibre is the only way to organize content. When you hook it to a PC you will see 3 folders: books are stored in the documents folder. You simply drag books from the PC to the documents folder.

Hope this helps as a starter!

[Elfwreck]

Originally Posted by chilady1

I don't mean to sound offensive or nasty, but given everything you have said in your post and you overall dislike of the product, why not return it (Amazon provides a 30 day window to return) or sell it. It clearly sounds like the Kindle is not the product for you or your daughter, based on the list you provided. Just a thought!

We're past the 30 day mark. (Grandfather was keeping it packed away for special occasion day gift.) And I'd rather not dislike a product I've never actually used; all my dislike is abstract at this point.

And daughter, once she gets past my biases, might enjoy it. She perked up at the idea of a dictionary, and annotations are probably more useful to her than to me. (I'm not at all dismayed at keeping a separate notebook for annotations instead of using the very limited functions in some portable devices; if she can't note it on the screen, she's not going to bother.)

Originally Posted by kindlekitten

keep up. it was a gift from the grandfather.

That's what I was thinking. And I really should try it first--or rather, learn enough of how it works to let *her* really try it.

ok, elfwreck, the only buttons you really need are the home (the house) (and I am working off of a K1, so sorry), the alt and font buttons, and the <- arrow along with the toggle switch.

Hmm. Will check those out when I get home.

go to smashwords, find books you like, download them to your computer, go to calibre, download it, drag the titles to calibre that you want it to work with, plug your kindle in, right click on the send to device, send it to the kindle, wait for the silver wheel to finish spinning, unplug the kindle, move the cursor to the book, click, read!

I probably want to avoid Calibre for now. (I have an older version that doesn't create mobi, but it's a really big download for dialup.) I've got plenty of ebooks for her, including some I bought at Fictionwise last summer when we got her a Jetbook, on which the screen broke in her purse.

Originally Posted by AnemicOak

There will be a folder called documents, you just drag your books there. You'll want Mobipocket format (.prc or .mobi, not .pdb). You can also put the books in folders by author inside the documents folder if you want to keep the directory more organized.

Right, prc. I knew I wanted mobi, and I'd've remembered when I looked at the actual files. I used to convert a lot of things to eReader pdb.

I guess if there is a benefit to the Kindle it's that it's probably one of the simplest devices on the market to use. The dictionary is a nice feature for some as well and so is being able to search the text.

Not sure what you're looking for instruction wise as it pretty much 'just works'. You use the joystick to move up and down your list of books, press the joystick to select whatever is underlined at the time and use the page turn buttons to change the pages (obviously). Menu will let you select various tasks like adding highlights and bookmarks, accessing the table of contents (if there is one), toggle wireless on/off. Back will bring you back to the page you were reading if you do an extended dictionary lookup.

This is what I needed--the buttons make perfect sense *after* you know what to do with them.

Next task is "figure out how to turn on/off wifi." (Followed by, "convince her school that this is a reasonable device to read in class when she's done with her work instead of having to carry a book.")

Sounds like you already don't link or want it around.

I don't have to like it for it to be worth keeping; she does. And I don't want to poison her against it.

[FizzyWater]

Originally Posted by Elfwreck

2) We won't be setting up an account at Amazon. (Am not giving access to my credit card to a 14-year-old and whichever of her friends she decides to share the thing with.) I gather this may hamper some of the Kindle's more nifty features.

When I recommend various readers to friends, the major selling point (IMO) for the Kindle is the ease of access because of the way Amazon is set up to push automatically to the device when the wireless is turned on.

Is is possible to set up an Amazon account without a credit card (with a gift certificate amount, for example)? (This assumes you're willing to allow access to "the evil empire" at all). Or, to use one of those Visa Gift cards that can be charged with a certain amount of money?

Even without wanting to purchase DRM, there are regular freebies offered that she could download.

Otherwise, I would ask - how hurt is grandpa going to be if you return it for a reader more in line with your/her tastes and access requirements?

Personally, I hate the placement of the page turn bars on the left and right (uh, I've only seen a Kindle 1, so maybe they've changed with K2?). I got my hands on one really cheap, so I play with it now and then, but I'm always turning pages when I don't mean to.

[AnemicOak]

Originally Posted by Elfwreck

Next task is "figure out how to turn on/off wifi." (Followed by, "convince her school that this is a reasonable device to read in class when she's done with her work instead of having to carry a book.")

Press 'Menu'. The top item in the list should be for toggling wireless on/off. Just make sure it's underlined and then press down on the joystick to toggle.

[delphidb96]

Well, *I* believe you're giving it short shrift. Yes, I know, I was all Bookeen all the time, but since I got my two K2s, I've fallen in love with my Kindles.

Originally Posted by Elfwreck

My daughter was given a Kindle by her grandfather, who has no idea how ebooks or ebook readers work.

I don't like it. I'm one of those "rant about the evils of Amazon, DRM and the Kindle" people. (Thought I should put the disclaimer up front.) She doesn't like it, but at least some of that is just carryover bias; mom doesn't like it; mom knows All About Ebooks, ergo, there must be something wrong with it.

It'd seem rude at best to just sell it and get an ebook reader I understand. Maybe I'm overlooking the Kindle's good features? Besides, I would like to know how they work.

I'd *love* some advice on how to use this thing, so she could at least give it a fair test before deciding whether or not she likes it. Issues:

1) We don't do DRM. At all. Of any sort. Won't be buying from Amazon.

There are some ebooks on Amazon that have no DRM. For example, Carl Bussjaeger's "Net Assets", a really NICE read - libertarian near-future SF - has no DRM. I *know* this because I'm the publisher!

Also, there are plenty of DRM-removal tools out there to strip DRM from any eReader.com/Fictionwise/Mobipocket/Amazon(AZW) ebook. And they're easy to use. No, I'm not advocating that you buy DRM'd ebooks in order to strip and share with others. I also note that many Fictionwise titles are sans-DRM.

And don't forget Baen's Webscriptions or even Smashwords. Baen has no DRM and many Smashwords titles are DRM-free. Just buy them in Kindle/Mobi format or convert them to Kindle/Mobi after purchase using Calibre.

2) We won't be setting up an account at Amazon. (Am not giving access to my credit card to a 14-year-old and whichever of her friends she decides to share the thing with.) I gather this may hamper some of the Kindle's more nifty features.

Okay, so you're limiting yourself to eReader.com, Fictionwise, Smashwords and Baen for your non-Amazon ebooks. Do you know how many titles that means? Not a problem. However, have you considered buying a pre-paid Mastercard or Visa debit card and let her have that for her Amazon purchases? A $50 or $100 card is probably not going to tempt her to overpurchase from Amazon.

3) The button arrangement makes no sense to me. Advices here would be VERY VERY WELCOME. The manual is, like most manuals, something that will obviously make a lot more sense after I understand how the device works.

Now here you're just being silly! Despite having spent all my time prior to my K2s using the never-to-be-sufficiently-damned Bookeen layout, it took me all of 20 minutes to get really comfortable with the Kindle way of doing things - and I'm 52 so I've nudged into the 'old dog' category. Yet somehow I've managed to learn new tricks.

4) Have not yet connected it to a computer. When I do, what can I expect? Will I see a nice little collection of folders into which I can start throwing .pdb files?

Yep. But not .pdb files. They'll have to be .prc/.mobi/.azw files. Of course, you *could* download that duakan (dukan?) Chinese alternative OS that switches over to the ePub format - but as this is still in early test phases, I'd not recommend doing so if you only have *one* Kindle. (Fancy that. I have *two* K2s! )

5) Any general-overview, getting-started advice would be welcome. All the Amazon instructions are focused on "here's how you start buying books, which we won't be doing. (At least, not from them.)

Ummm... Not to be too obvious, but once you've got your Kindle plugged into the computer (comes with its own dedicated cable - and can either charge from the wall-wart or from the computer), it's pretty easy. You just look for the Kindle in your list of drives, open the 'drive' and drag your ebooks into the "Documents" folder like you'd do with a Bookeen.

I'll try to be polite in my responses, and I promise to actually consider what people say about the benefits of the Kindle.

That attitude, given that you've not actually worked with the Kindle long enough to justify it, is rather irritating. Now once you've *used* the Kindle for a few months I'd say you have the right to be obnoxious about it. (And I have the right to say this because of my hindsight - clearly 20/20 - wherein I admit that all my bitching and moaning about the 'flaws of the Kindle' were and are pre-K2-ownership.)

Derek

[whitearrow]

It is trivially easy to remove DRM from all Kindle books except the relatively rare Topaz (.azw1) format. Once you have it set up, it's a matter of running a single script.

Having an Amazon account allows for sampling (great, IMO), "purchasing" the frequently offered free (and very cheap) books, and easy, anytime/anywhere downloading.

It should be easy enough to track and limit your daughter's purchases by using gift cards. While you need a credit card on the account, there is no "access" to the credit card or its number on the Kindle itself. The device itself can only be used for buying books, and the email address on the account gets a receipt for every purchase, so you will know exactly what she is buying and how much she is spending. (Amazon will refund your purchase if you ask within a few days, too, so you do have recourse if she goes crazy with purchasing.)

You don't have to give your daughter access to the Amazon website account or its password in order for her to use the Kindle. (Starting with the new software version, the Kindle can be password-protected, but it doesn't need to be the same as the account password.)

Overall, IMO, you are kind of throwing out the baby with the bathwater here.

[Elfwreck]

I will look into setting up an Amazon account for her with a gift card, if that's possible. I don't mind her having an Amazon account; I'm just not willing for it to be tied to my finances.

Being able to track her use of it is not enough--if I can't put a spending cap on it, I won't be opening the account. But I see what people mean about the samples & free books; I'd like her to have access to those.

you're limiting yourself to eReader.com, Fictionwise, Smashwords and Baen for your non-Amazon ebooks

1) eReader.com sells non-DRM'd ebooks?
2) And Mobileread, feedbooks, gutenberg, and the fanfic ebook archive. And countless small publisher/indie author sites. She's 14, an avid fanfic reader, and not bored with classics. By the time the limitations of "no DRM'd books" begins to actually bother her, she should have enough experience with both ebooks and money to make up her own mind how to deal with them.

It is trivially easy to remove DRM from all Kindle books except the relatively rare Topaz

I'm not willing to encourage publishers to use DRM by paying for products infected with it. (I don't buy from Walmart or purchase Nestle products, either. I'm aware that I've got some oddball ideas about consumer ethics; my kid's not required to share them, just put up with them for a few more years.)

That attitude, given that you've not actually worked with the Kindle long enough to justify it, is rather irritating.

I'm sorry about that. I'd like her to enjoy her gift, and I'll be sending her over here to get her own mobileread account soon. I was mostly hoping that, by mentioning my (very likely irrational) biases up front, they wouldn't catch people by surprise later in the conversation.

[quoteOtherwise, I would ask - how hurt is grandpa going to be if you return it for a reader more in line with your/her tastes and access requirements?[/quote]

She should try it before letting my reaction make her decision for her. (If it comes down to it, returning it would be tolerable. I just don't want her to miss out on what might be the perfect reader for her, if my preferences weren't in the way.)

[ficbot]

I think it is fabulous that she wants/has an ebook reader at her age. When I was 14, my dream was a bookstore the size of a shopping mall. They have those now. And the idea that I could download all of the books in this shopping mall and carry them around in my pocket would have been a dream come true.

I use the text to speech and and dictionary features of my Kindle a lot. I am not a huge music person so I use text to speech to read while I walk, either at the gym or when commuting, instead of listening to music on an ipod. And I use the dictionary feature when I read in French. Other than a lack of those two features, my Sony was perfectly fine, my Libre (my current back-up reader on which I keep a slightly different set of content) is fine, and the Kobo I got my mom is fine. They are all perfectly adequate and I bet she'd be happy with any of them, so you may consider selling it and buying a cheaper model if the Kindle doesn't have features you absolutely need. As I said, my mother readers were perfectly fine---except for the lack of the two features it happens the Kindle had, which I wanted.

I would be very curious for you to share some of your book list with us. I enjoy YA books and would love to know which classics your 14-year-old enjoys.

[VanillaEps]

The more I read this thread, the more weird it gets.

[kindlekitten]

how so?

[ttluisa]

Ithink there are pretty much enough informations about how to use kindle in this thread, I'll just straighten something up, at least from my understanding.

1. Setting up an account with amazon does not require any credit card information, you can definitely register your kindle and benefit from those freebies.

2. DRM is not implanted by amazon, but publishers who try to protect ebooks from pirating. It is disturbing but please don't hate amazon.

3. Kindle is really a good reader and probably one of the best and easiest among all ereaders in the market. Don't be hesitate to try it out. I can see that you already had prejudice from the whole DRM and credit card info storing thing but no need to. I understand your situation but as soon as your little one is able to manage her own finance and I believe she will find those features convenient and easy.

4. You mentioned that your daughter loves fanfics and I was a fan too at her age. She can just copy whatever she likes in to a TXT file and toss it in to kindle, very easy.

Enjoy the gift.