Amazon uses DMCA to restrict where you can buy e-books - Page 8

Moejoe · 03-12-2009, 04:59 PM

Late to this, but so sorry you had to abide by an unjust law, Alex. I understand there was no other option, and you've been forethright about the whole thing, for which I applaud you.

EricWiz · 03-12-2009, 05:02 PM

Well guys, I don't know about you but I am not surprised. I wish I was mind you. But I am really not. This is just another company in a ling line of companies that do this sort of thing and you know who I blame for it?

US! You and me. We allow it to happen. The Itunes store was DRM for ever and did that stop people from buying Ipods? No. Best selling MP3 EVER!

Same thing will happen here. People will buy up the Kindle cuz it from Amazon and ohhhh ahhhh isn't it nifty! I for one will never buy a Kindle now. But many many many others will.

The only way to correct this sort of thing is to vote with your pocket book and the bottom line is no one cares. They will buy anyway.

The ironic thing about it all is that when I boycott a store or manufacturer for some ridiculous practice, people look at me funny!

Ah well.... just more of the same really.

Eric

Moejoe · 03-12-2009, 05:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daithi

What if Mobileread issued a press release concerning Amazon's harrasement of a community that supports the adoption of ebooks?

If Amazon wants to send legal threats to Mobileread then they deserve some bad publicity. I've seen some of Zelda's posts that are scathing while remaining very civil, and I bet she could write a press release that could really highlight Amazon's abuse of DMCA and the shameful way they treat leading advocates of ebooks.

Does anyone on this forum have press contacts?

I reported it to Defective by Design for their Anti-Kindle campaign that's coming up.

Shaggy · 03-12-2009, 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zelda_pinwheel

it does sound that way doesn't it ?

IMO, this is definitely a case of a DMCA notice being issued in 'bad faith", which has some serious penalties (assuming that the government would ever enforce them, which they don't).

slayda · 03-12-2009, 05:15 PM

First, I'd like to thank Alex for the way he and the other moderators help make MR what it is - sometimes in spite of (some of) ourselves.

Secondly I probably should have remembered that I didn't want Big (amazon) Brother looking over my shoulder and that was why I didn't buy a Kindle 1 when they first came out (old timer's disease, I guess).

Thirdly, I just put tape over my Kindle's Wispernet switch. I don't think they can monitor or change anything as long as it is off. I'm not personally enough of a programmer to do it but I do have it on very good authority that SW can be written that will disable Whispernet regardless of that switch's setting. Also that SW can be written that will allow one to copy the current Kindle SW load for the probable future event that Amazon "upgrades" your Kindle to a more crippled version of their SW.

Fourthly, maybe the OpenInkPot guys might like both help and a donation of a Kindle to be able to replace the Amazon firmware with OI.

And lastly, IMHO amazon is guilty of Digital McCArthyism.

koland · 03-12-2009, 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scotty1024

The law on Digitial Rights Management systems and the breaking thereof is not murky at all. Unless you have a valid exemption: it's illegal (unless of course you lie somewhere where it isn't the local rule of law).

However, publishing code in a text form that breaks the DRM if it were run as a program is a clearly protected (and previously litigated) excercise of your first amendment rights. Somewhere around here I have the t-shirt of the program that broke some of the original DVD protection.

Selling the program may be illegal, running the program may or may not (again, you get into exceptions, country of sale/possession issues, etc), but publishing the program's text (and the "artistic expression" of directions on how to use it) are protected (just like directions on a recipe).

Amazon probably didn't care much until the ipod app took off - it's become a worldwide access point to their digital catalog. Although there are legitimate uses of the kindlepid program (the ability to rent library ebooks, which actually pay the authors more than print copies), if the Kindle were the hardware to have and only Amazon sold DRM content worked on it, it might actually put pressure on other sources to remove DRM (since non-drm content works just fine and was a selling point/feature of the K and K2).

In actuality, of course, the PID is being used by the unscrupulous to buy a single amazon version of a file and then sell off illegal copies (of course, they can still do this will all other mobi versions, so the drop in profit for them would be negligible, were this a real argument -- all other versions of mobi pretty much have to have open PID's that the end-user can type in to the store/library system). Stopping you from knowing the PID also doesn't block any non-US sales (where Amazon is more likely to be violating author rights contracts on a massive scale, but only due to lies of geographic location entered by their customers).

The main problem is actually at Amazon's end - despite owning mobipocket, they are separate companies and have licenses/contracts between them. Those are no doubt more of an issue - why would anyone in their right mind buy from other mobi vendors if you could get the same book from Amazon for any mobi licensed platform. It breaks the exclusivity (and high prices) of non-kindle mobi stores/hardware.

Then again, some idiots think people still want "books as apps" over on apple, with another one released recently in the near $30 range (no, I don't remember the exact title, but suspect it's $10 to $15 in the amazon store, can be read on all your kindle devices, not just the iphone and doesn't count towards your app limit).

Moejoe · 03-12-2009, 05:21 PM

What I really don't get is why they would do this? Why get a whole community, one that has an astounding reputation and is pushing the adoption of digital reading more than anyone else, up in arms? You'd think by now someone at Amazon had some business sense? Someone there would have held back on this. The bad faith they've created will spread, mark my words, wouldn't surprise me if in the next few days we're going to see a lot of articles and terrible press on this move. Serves them right.

JSWolf · 03-12-2009, 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RickyMaveety

You will all have to pardon me if this is all I post today. I have a large amount to write for a client and I can only use my left hand for short periods before it starts hurting.

I hope your left hand gets better soon. I know it's annoying to be in pain and not be able to do what you want to do.

TadW · 03-12-2009, 05:47 PM

The irony is that kindlepid.py has been around ever since Kindle 1 got launched (end of 2007, early 2008?) It makes me wonder why Amazon has suddenly decided to invoke DMCA against this tool.

In all fairness, I don't think preventing us to use the PID code for .mobi e-book purchases elsewhere is Amazon's main objective. Or why wait until today? So... the Kindle iPhone app, which was recently released, comes into mind...

JSWolf · 03-12-2009, 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scotty1024

Moi? A troll? More name calling when you can't handle the heat? I'm here standing up precisely because so many folks that appear to be very morally weak on intellectual property are expounding some very questionable and dangerous ideas.

Trolls on the other hand pick fights online for the sole purpose of enjoying the ensuing controversy. Personally I'd love to see Alex sue Amazon over the DMCA take down notice and try to bring about change. But until that happens the law is the law.

We do respect intellectual property. What we want is fair use. DMCA takes fair use and tries to stifle it. I don't want to purchase an eBook and then put it up on some torrent site. I want to purchase an eBook and be able to read it where and when I want. That's not morally weak on IP. That's fair use at work.

daffy4u · 03-12-2009, 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TadW

The irony is that kindlepid.py has been around ever since Kindle 1 got launched (end of 2007, early 2008?) It makes me wonder why Amazon has suddenly decided to invoke DMCA against this tool.

In all fairness, I don't think preventing us to use the PID code for .mobi e-book purchases elsewhere is Amazon's main objective. Or why wait until today? So... the Kindle iPhone app, which was recently released, comes into mind...

That's why I believe Serial Numbers were removed from "Manage My Kindle". Everything connects back to the release of the Kindle for iPhone app.

NatCh · 03-12-2009, 06:04 PM

Hmmm, if the Kindle for iPhone app facilitates DRM removal in this fashion ... wouldn't that mean that it's equally as "infringing" as kindlePID.py is?

JSWolf · 03-12-2009, 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaleDe

You can easily get the PID without Kindlepid. It is in your backup folder on your computer.

Dale

That's not the PID. That is the UDID and that is what Amazon uses to generate the PID from.

zelda_pinwheel · 03-12-2009, 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NatCh

Hmmm, if the Kindle for iPhone app facilitates DRM removal in this fashion ... wouldn't that mean that it's equally as "infringing" as kindlePID.py is?

well i'm confused. didn't the iphone app come from amazon ?? or at the least, didn't they sanction it ?? you would think they would have had to, particularly in light of the rumors that they squashed a mobipocket iphone reader app... (or am i mistaken about that ?) now why would amazon want to launch an iphone app if it infringed upon anything ?

Moejoe · 03-12-2009, 06:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zelda_pinwheel

well i'm confused. didn't the iphone app come from amazon ?? or at the least, didn't they sanction it ?? you would think they would have had to, particularly in light of the rumors that they squashed a mobipocket iphone reader app... (or am i mistaken about that ?) now why would amazon want to launch an iphone app if it infringed upon anything ?

I'm just wondering is there an analog to the MPAA/RIAA et al within the book world? Some organisation that might be steering these companies in the wrong direction when it comes to DRM and it uses? I still can't believe that any sane business-person would intentionally alienate their customers. It doesn't make sense at all. Especially since Amazon provide non-DRM'ed MP3 downloads.

03-12-2009, 05:15 PM	#110
slayda Retired & reading more! Posts: 2,764 Karma: 1884247 Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: North Alabama, USA Device: Kindle 1, iPad Air 2, iPhone 6S+, Kobo Aura One	First, I'd like to thank Alex for the way he and the other moderators help make MR what it is - sometimes in spite of (some of) ourselves. Secondly I probably should have remembered that I didn't want Big (amazon) Brother looking over my shoulder and that was why I didn't buy a Kindle 1 when they first came out (old timer's disease, I guess). Thirdly, I just put tape over my Kindle's Wispernet switch. I don't think they can monitor or change anything as long as it is off. I'm not personally enough of a programmer to do it but I do have it on very good authority that SW can be written that will disable Whispernet regardless of that switch's setting. Also that SW can be written that will allow one to copy the current Kindle SW load for the probable future event that Amazon "upgrades" your Kindle to a more crippled version of their SW. Fourthly, maybe the OpenInkPot guys might like both help and a donation of a Kindle to be able to replace the Amazon firmware with OI. And lastly, IMHO amazon is guilty of Digital McCArthyism. Last edited by slayda; 03-12-2009 at 05:19 PM.

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03-12-2009, 04:59 PM	#106
Moejoe Banned Posts: 5,100 Karma: 72193 Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: South of the Border Device: Coffin	Late to this, but so sorry you had to abide by an unjust law, Alex. I understand there was no other option, and you've been forethright about the whole thing, for which I applaud you.

03-12-2009, 05:02 PM	#107
EricWiz Member Posts: 16 Karma: 80 Join Date: Oct 2008 Device: prs-505	Well guys, I don't know about you but I am not surprised. I wish I was mind you. But I am really not. This is just another company in a ling line of companies that do this sort of thing and you know who I blame for it? US! You and me. We allow it to happen. The Itunes store was DRM for ever and did that stop people from buying Ipods? No. Best selling MP3 EVER! Same thing will happen here. People will buy up the Kindle cuz it from Amazon and ohhhh ahhhh isn't it nifty! I for one will never buy a Kindle now. But many many many others will. The only way to correct this sort of thing is to vote with your pocket book and the bottom line is no one cares. They will buy anyway. The ironic thing about it all is that when I boycott a store or manufacturer for some ridiculous practice, people look at me funny! Ah well.... just more of the same really. Eric

03-12-2009, 05:21 PM	#112
Moejoe Banned Posts: 5,100 Karma: 72193 Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: South of the Border Device: Coffin	What I really don't get is why they would do this? Why get a whole community, one that has an astounding reputation and is pushing the adoption of digital reading more than anyone else, up in arms? You'd think by now someone at Amazon had some business sense? Someone there would have held back on this. The bad faith they've created will spread, mark my words, wouldn't surprise me if in the next few days we're going to see a lot of articles and terrible press on this move. Serves them right.

03-12-2009, 05:47 PM	#114
TadW Uebermensch Posts: 2,583 Karma: 1094606 Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Italy Device: Kindle	The irony is that kindlepid.py has been around ever since Kindle 1 got launched (end of 2007, early 2008?) It makes me wonder why Amazon has suddenly decided to invoke DMCA against this tool. In all fairness, I don't think preventing us to use the PID code for .mobi e-book purchases elsewhere is Amazon's main objective. Or why wait until today? So... the Kindle iPhone app, which was recently released, comes into mind...

03-12-2009, 06:04 PM	#117
NatCh Gizmologist Posts: 11,615 Karma: 929550 Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Republic of Texas Embassy at Jackson, TN Device: Pocketbook Touch HD3	Hmmm, if the Kindle for iPhone app facilitates DRM removal in this fashion ... wouldn't that mean that it's equally as "infringing" as kindlePID.py is?

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