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Old 03-09-2022, 12:19 AM   #1
Tarman
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First Ebook Graphic Novel

Hi, I've been working on a graphic novel for several years and wish to sell it online when complete. (most likely amazon) The book is long for a GN so I've split it into 5 parts. My thinking behind this is that it will be a faster download after purchase.

I have some questions for anyone willing to help someone new to the ebook concept.

I've been uploading my book onto Blurb, but they're soon removing ebooks from their site, so I may need to transition it to another site.

Q: Each volume consists of approx: 100-130 pages. Will this be a problem for ebooks? Meaning do some editors have a low max page count?

Q: Being loaded with large jpg art, would it be a good idea to compress each pdf before publishing?

Q: Is it possible to present your ebook in flipbook presentation for publication on amazon?

Thanks.
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Old 03-09-2022, 10:12 AM   #2
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Originally Posted by Tarman View Post
Hi, I've been working on a graphic novel for several years and wish to sell it online when complete. (most likely amazon) The book is long for a GN so I've split it into 5 parts. My thinking behind this is that it will be a faster download after purchase.
Well, good for thinking about the download times, but I think you'll find that 100-130 pages, per each novel/segment, is pretty damned big for an eBook. VERY large. I mean, think of the math--let's say you have 8" x 10" pages, at 300DPI, yes? That's a single page size of 7.2mb / page (2400x3000px = 7.2M pixels = 7.2mb), x 100 pages = 720mb at a minimum. Right?

Quote:
I have some questions for anyone willing to help someone new to the ebook concept.

I've been uploading my book onto Blurb, but they're soon removing ebooks from their site, so I may need to transition it to another site.
Yes, that seems likely. Have you looked at Comixology, which is now owned by Amazon?

Quote:
Q: Each volume consists of approx: 100-130 pages. Will this be a problem for ebooks? Meaning do some editors have a low max page count?
Well, it will hurt your delivery fees (you'll likely have to do the 35% royalty, given the size), and yes, those are going to be quite large. I'd consider down-rezzing them; when well-done, you can have readable work even as low as 96dpi. (I live and die with TinyPNG for resolution reduction.)

Quote:
Q: Being loaded with large jpg art, would it be a good idea to compress each pdf before publishing?
Oh, yes.

Quote:
Q: Is it possible to present your ebook in flipbook presentation for publication on amazon?

No. You can do a fixed-layout eBook, which works in "comic" mode (presents panels in a kind of slidey-way...you should experiment so that you see how it works), but that slider presentation does keep other parts of the pages/panels OUT of the view of the reader, so not ideal.


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Thanks.
You're most welcome. I think you should download Kindle Create, play with it, make a comic and see how it looks on Kindle previewer 3. That will tell/inform you loads more than I can.

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Old 03-10-2022, 08:01 AM   #3
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It's an electronic graphic novel, not a real ebook. Mostly only suitable for tablets. It will need a fixed layout.

You need to test on real devices and buy a similar format comic off Amazon to see what it's like to read on a tablet.

The number of pages might not be an issue for Amazon. Google Playstore also sells comics/electronic graphic novels.
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Old 03-10-2022, 08:45 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by Quoth View Post
It's an electronic graphic novel, not a real ebook. Mostly only suitable for tablets. It will need a fixed layout.

You need to test on real devices and buy a similar format comic off Amazon to see what it's like to read on a tablet.

The number of pages might not be an issue for Amazon. Google Playstore also sells comics/electronic graphic novels.
Quoth:

He really won't be able to test on a real device, if he uses KC (Kindle Create). That provides a .kpf, which can't be sideloaded. He'll have to rely upon Kindle Previewer's display of the result.

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Old 03-12-2022, 05:19 AM   #5
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Quoth:

He really won't be able to test on a real device, if he uses KC (Kindle Create). That provides a .kpf, which can't be sideloaded. He'll have to rely upon Kindle Previewer's display of the result.

Hitch
That's why I suggested buying a similar comic. Then he'll have to upload make his available, buy it and check. It's very unsatisfactory as is having to use ONLY the Kindle create to format.

The workflow has got horrible for real proofs of KDP even for real reflowable ebooks and paper. Even a paper proof copy is not the same now as the retail copy.
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Old 03-12-2022, 10:29 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by Quoth View Post
That's why I suggested buying a similar comic. Then he'll have to upload make his available, buy it and check. It's very unsatisfactory as is having to use ONLY the Kindle create to format.
Ah, sorry, du-uh. My bad, my eyes simply elided that for some reason. Or my brain. Either or both is possible. I've had some kind of weird-ass lung infection for the last few weeks; the antibiotics are finally kicking its ass, but it's making my brain uncooperative.


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The workflow has got horrible for real proofs of KDP even for real reflowable ebooks and paper. Even a paper proof copy is not the same now as the retail copy.
Nah, not for print. Yes, the proof is exactly the same, excepting the printed "ribbon" (Proof Copy Not for Resale) around the upper 1/3rd of the cover and the faux barcode, which is slightly larger than the real one. Other than that, Quoth, it's exactly the same. Did you mean only those two things, or...?

And for the ebooks--well, if someone uses KC, for a novel or non-fiction, that's really on them, isn't it? (I want to be clear, I don't mean the poor folks doing comics, or kids' books, or FXL of any kind). If you use KC for anything other than what it MUST be used for, well...then the inability to proof on a real device, that's the consequence. Use KP3 to proof it and hope for the best. You're forced, effectively, to use KC.

I don't mean to sound unsympathetic, I don't. To be fair and to restate it, comic-book producer realistically can't make a Comic/Panel version; a fixed-layout producer can't create a fixed-layout eBook (I mean...gods, you CAN but Sweet Moses on a Pony, who wants to pay for that, from a real eBook producer, for cryin' out loud?), or a kids' book with say, panel view (and no zoom) or with Zoom (and no panel view)?

KC is good for DIYers, I guess but it sucketh for professionals or those who want their stuff DONE RIGHT.

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Old 03-12-2022, 11:48 AM   #7
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excepting the printed "ribbon" (Proof Copy Not for Resale) around the upper 1/3rd of the cover and the faux barcode, which is slightly larger than the real one. Other than that, Quoth, it's exactly the same. Did you mean only those two things,
Yes, that's it. There is a completely separate issue that their print preview margin detection doesn't work and they have crazy table of inner margin vs page count.

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KC is good for DIYers, I guess but it sucketh for professionals or those who want their stuff DONE RIGHT.
A once off DIY that doesn't want to invest any time learning. Yet considering time to research, write & proof content?

Last edited by Quoth; 03-12-2022 at 11:52 AM.
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Old 03-12-2022, 12:27 PM   #8
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Yes, that's it. There is a completely separate issue that their print preview margin detection doesn't work and they have crazy table of inner margin vs page count.
Crazy table of inner margin? I've never had a problem with it, UNLESS I used the minimum--and then, of course, if you have any italics, particularly Garamond, the italicized descenders (like a lower-case F, for example) will trigger the margin error message, but that's easy enough to fix. (I've found that true with any printer, private or POD. Haven't you?)

For the minimum 0.75, for example, we just use 0.76 or 0.77, as the minimums and so on. I mean...that's pretty minor.

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Print Preview Margin Detection doesn't work?
It has in my experience, which now, isn't insignificant. What do you mean? Are you talking about full bleed and white gaps or something else?

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A once off DIY that doesn't want to invest any time learning. Yet considering time to research, write & proof content?
Well, the once-off takes authors and hand-walks them through what they ought to have done in Word, in the first place--assigning styles. Paragraph/body styles, heading styles, etc. It gives them a fairly decent outcome.

I'd agree with you, but given what I've seen, over the past dozen years--it's simply accepting the fact that authors a) don't want to read, b) don't want to learn to use Word, c) or any other word-processor; d) can't be bothered, generally and e) want something FREE and relatively easy.

IME, while I may have no use for KC, Amazon is simply accepting that which is. I haven't seen anything that tells me that they are doing something other than that.

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Old 03-14-2022, 10:08 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by Hitch View Post
Well, good for thinking about the download times, but I think you'll find that 100-130 pages, per each novel/segment, is pretty damned big for an eBook. VERY large. I mean, think of the math--let's say you have 8" x 10" pages, at 300DPI, yes? That's a single page size of 7.2mb / page (2400x3000px = 7.2M pixels = 7.2mb), x 100 pages = 720mb at a minimum. Right?



Yes, that seems likely. Have you looked at Comixology, which is now owned by Amazon?



Well, it will hurt your delivery fees (you'll likely have to do the 35% royalty, given the size), and yes, those are going to be quite large. I'd consider down-rezzing them; when well-done, you can have readable work even as low as 96dpi. (I live and die with TinyPNG for resolution reduction.)



Oh, yes.




No. You can do a fixed-layout eBook, which works in "comic" mode (presents panels in a kind of slidey-way...you should experiment so that you see how it works), but that slider presentation does keep other parts of the pages/panels OUT of the view of the reader, so not ideal.




You're most welcome. I think you should download Kindle Create, play with it, make a comic and see how it looks on Kindle previewer 3. That will tell/inform you loads more than I can.

Hitch
In the graphic novel world 130 pages is pretty run of the mill. That's an average manga volume. I have a few omnibuses that collect 3 volumes in one and they are 500+ MB bought from Kobo. I don't think most are that high res though and manga benefits from mainly being B&W. Most of mine are sub 2000 pixels in height.

Kindle Comic Converter does a pretty good job of making an ePub/AZW3 similar to what you get from Kobo/Amazon from JPEGs/CBZ. Not sure if this is up to snuff for Amazon's standards for selling but it's at least a start.

After the whole recent Comixology let's blend it into Kindle business they no longer take submissions.

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Old 03-14-2022, 10:14 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by salamanderjuice View Post
In the graphic novel world 130 pages is pretty run of the mill. That's an average manga volume. I have a few omnibuses that collect 3 volumes in one and they are 500+ MB bought from Kobo. I don't think most are that high res though and manga benefits from mainly being B&W. Most of mine are sub 2000 pixels in height.
I believe you. I wasn't criticizing the length, etc.; I was just talking about size, no matter how it gets there from here. I find that 96DPI actually works pretty well, for Kindles, generically (eInks and Fires both), if the size (hxw) is adequate.

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Kindle Comic Converter does a pretty good job of making an ePub similar to what you get from Kobo from JPEGs/CBZ. Not sure if this is up to snuff for Amazon's standards for selling but it's at least a start.
Yabbut, the problem is, as far as I know--and hopefully, I would (famous last words)--you can't upload that ePUB to KDP and get a working result. Unless/until the coding is wildly different than what I expect, the way that FXL ePUB is coded, when set up "automagically" is almost always for a given tablet screen size, resolution, pixel density--and it's almost ubiquitously NOT set for Kindles. Now, KCC is a piece of private software, so...dunno. What tablet size/screen size, etc. is that set to work with, do you know?

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After the whole recent Comixology let's blend it into Kindle business they no longer take submissions.
Yeah, sorry to hear that. It must be very frustrating.

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Old 03-14-2022, 10:36 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by Hitch View Post
I believe you. I wasn't criticizing the length, etc.; I was just talking about size, no matter how it gets there from here. I find that 96DPI actually works pretty well, for Kindles, generically (eInks and Fires both), if the size (hxw) is adequate.



Yabbut, the problem is, as far as I know--and hopefully, I would (famous last words)--you can't upload that ePUB to KDP and get a working result. Unless/until the coding is wildly different than what I expect, the way that FXL ePUB is coded, when set up "automagically" is almost always for a given tablet screen size, resolution, pixel density--and it's almost ubiquitously NOT set for Kindles. Now, KCC is a piece of private software, so...dunno. What tablet size/screen size, etc. is that set to work with, do you know?



Yeah, sorry to hear that. It must be very frustrating.

Hitch
You can customize KCC to various screen sizes, really what that does is it just resizes the images to be a better resolution fit for the device so it doesn't have to resize them on the fly. This is only really a problem for really high res images on old devices IME. I think ePub manga/graphic novel is not quite the same as FXL story book stuff and doesn't care as much for a given resolution. The code is very simple and it's literally just showing 1 full screen image a page. Here's an example of a typical "page":

Code:
<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><html xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml" xmlns:epub="http://www.idpf.org/2007/ops"><head>
	<meta name="viewport" content="width=800, height=1200"/>
    <meta charset="utf-8"/>
    <title>No Matter How I Look at It, It&apos;s You Guys&apos; Fault I&apos;m Not Popular!, Vol. 7</title>
    <link rel="stylesheet" href="../Styles/style0001.css" type="text/css"/>
</head><body>
<div class="page">
    <img src="../Images/image00040.jpeg" alt="" width="800" height="1200"/>
</div>
</body></html>
In case you're wondering this all the stylesheet is doing:
Code:
body {
    width: 800px;
    height: 1200px;
    margin: 0;
}
img {
    margin: 0;
    z-index: 0;
}
Simple! This is from a Kindle unpack'd ePub. Kobo epubs are basically the same.

The viewport doesn't have to be specific to the device resolution at all and I've read the same book on devices with varying resolutions.

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Old 03-14-2022, 11:46 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by salamanderjuice View Post
You can customize KCC to various screen sizes, really what that does is it just resizes the images to be a better resolution fit for the device so it doesn't have to resize them on the fly. This is only really a problem for really high res images on old devices IME. I think ePub manga/graphic novel is not quite the same as FXL story book stuff and doesn't care as much for a given resolution. The code is very simple and it's literally just showing 1 full screen image a page. Here's an example of a typical "page":

(snippage for length)

Simple! This is from a Kindle unpack'd ePub. Kobo epubs are basically the same.

The viewport doesn't have to be specific to the device resolution at all and I've read the same book on devices with varying resolutions.

Okay, so...you create a book that is just a concatenation of images, yes? One image per page/screen? I guess that'll work. It's not searchable, of course, but then again, presumably, it wouldn't be. it doesn't have a text layer, so that solves all the pixel x-y stuff that FXL (from ePUB) brings to the table.

So...I guess my question would be, which one (which set of pixel dimensions for the final, for which device?) are you using to sell at KDP? And have you uploaded and tested this yet, to see what you get in MOBI or KFX or whatever format KDP will workflow this into?

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Old 03-14-2022, 12:03 PM   #13
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I'm not OP lol. I'm just pointing this out. I'm not making anything to sell. It could KDP won't accept this IDK. This is how most manga at least is sold on Amazon/Kobo and many American comics too although some add that guided panel view thing. I've never encountered one with searchable text, selectable text or anything of that nature, often they don't even bother with implementing a ToC (from real big publishers worth millions).

In my experience the screen resolutions are all over the place and don't seem targeted at any specific device. I'd just pick something highish like 1000x2000 that looks good on 300PPI readers like the Forma or Oasis. This is pretty similar to a lot of the better quality stuff I have. But again KDP might not accept this, but really they don't need to be as complex as you guys make out.
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Old 03-14-2022, 12:30 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by salamanderjuice View Post
I'm not OP lol. I'm just pointing this out. I'm not making anything to sell. It could KDP won't accept this IDK. This is how most manga at least is sold on Amazon/Kobo and many American comics too although some add that guided panel view thing. I've never encountered one with searchable text, selectable text or anything of that nature, often they don't even bother with implementing a ToC (from real big publishers worth millions).

In my experience the screen resolutions are all over the place and don't seem targeted at any specific device. I'd just pick something highish like 1000x2000 that looks good on 300PPI readers like the Forma or Oasis. This is pretty similar to a lot of the better quality stuff I have. But again KDP might not accept this, but really they don't need to be as complex as you guys make out.
Right, 'cuz, hey, we have nothing better to do than make it "more complex" than it needs to be.

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