End of Sony consumer readers confirmed

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by DuckieTigger

Unless people want to use a different store other than Amazon and sideload DRMd books onto the Kindle. That is one limitation where Amazon is bullying by not letting anybody else apply the DRM to books.
.

Last I heard "bullying" is about intimidating people and forcing them to do what you say.

I don't see how refusing to kowtow to other people's magical annointed standard falls within that definition. Amazon has been doing its thing since before there was an epub and letting customers vote their wallets.

(And, technically, Bezos offered to license Kindle DRM back circa 2009-10. Nobody stepped up, presumably because doing so requires supporting Whispernet and letting Amazon control the customer relationship. Which is why Amazon won't kneel before Zod....er, Adobe.)

[fjtorres]

I've pointed out before that, back in 2007, Sony had all the elements necessary to big a major player in ebooks; good hardware, an adequate ebookstore, and a proprietary format.
And they had a 2-year lead on Amazon and their frumpy Kindle 1.

They were masters of their own fate but instead of betting on their own ecosystem, as they do in the video game arena, they chose to bet on "interoperability" and somebody else's ecosystem, surrendering total control over the customer experience and trying to compete solely on hardware merit.

They are hardly the only (or even first) company to fritter away early market domination by betting on multiplatform interoperability but they do present the biggest missed oportunity (so far) this century.

We can only wonder what might've been if they had chosen to go toe to toe with Amazon on ebooks and tried to build up their lrf bookstore instead of wasting the better part of a year relaunching their business. At a minimum, the shift to near-cost reader pricing in 2010 wouldn't have hurt them as badly.

The real money in ebooks is in the content, just as in gaming, but Sony gave it up and bet on hardware instead.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by issybird

Hachette wants to do what's best for Hachette and Amazon wants what's best for Amazon. It's just like Market Basket, Jon. The customer pays as the big boys duke it out. I'm in the a-plague-on-both-their-houses camp.

I do not have a large budget for books. So I am firmly in the camp that doesn't want Hatchette to win and be allowed to go agency.

[hansl]

Originally Posted by eschwartz

I have yet to hear Amazon's "bullying" explained.
Also by the same extension you are locked into Kobo or Barnes & Noble depending on which device you buy. Unless of course you know how to sideload books -- in which case please do not pretend it is any harder to do so on a Kindle.

That was not my point but since you mention it: I want to have a choice of shops under legal circumstances for buying living literature (not only download 70+ years dead authors). Being locked with Adobe DRM still leaves a selection of booksellers. Being locked with Amazon doesn't, at least not in Germany. The Kobo Aura HD, which would currently be my only replacement candidate should my T3 break, supports Adobe DRM.

But I agree with fjtorres that it's not Amazon's fault that Sony has wrecked a big chance.

[eschwartz]

Originally Posted by hansl

That was not my point but since you mention it: I want to have a choice of shops under legal circumstances for buying living literature (not only download 70+ years dead authors). Being locked with Adobe DRM still leaves a selection of booksellers. Being locked with Amazon doesn't, at least not in Germany. The Kobo Aura HD, which would currently be my only replacement candidate should my T3 break, supports Adobe DRM.

But I agree with fjtorres that it's not Amazon's fault that Sony has wrecked a big chance.

And it is not Amazon who did that -- it is the publishers.

Additionally, what is harder in Germany than in the US, about sideloading DeDRMed books onto a Kindle?

[DuckieTigger]

Originally Posted by eschwartz

And it is not Amazon who did that -- it is the publishers.

Additionally, what is harder in Germany than in the US, about sideloading DeDRMed books onto a Kindle?

In Germany books are valued more. So the threshold of doing something illegal with them is much harder to cross or justify.

[markbot]

Yeah, Sony couldn't survive on the razor blade model (selling the device at cost and making the margin up on the books) since their book service had no chance of competing with Amazon's. The writing was on the wall early. Ereaders are strategically important to Amazon whereas the business definitely wasn't at Sony. Sony's only hope was to go high end, but there was limited ability to introduce high end features as the technology rapidly matured....and part of the high end became tablets. The services around the device became more important than the hardware, putting Sony at a big disadvantage.

If Sony invested in color epaper or in an epaper with really high refresh rates...maybe they could have done well by reselling the tech....but people don't seem to be too excited about epaper nowadays with tablets being cheap.

[eschwartz]

Originally Posted by DuckieTigger

In Germany books are valued more. So the threshold of doing something illegal with them is much harder to cross or justify.

"I don't wanna" != harder

[DuckieTigger]

Originally Posted by eschwartz

"I don't wanna" != harder

True, but there is also not much need to shop around in the first place. Book retail prices are quite high in Germany without much wiggle room to discount. Interesting as well - I have never seen a bookstore (B&M) in Germany that would not order a book for free (no extra s&p) within a week or less. That even includes foreign (language) books that would not be stocked in store normally. Bookstores always had great service even when other retail stores were somewhat lacking.

[eschwartz]

Originally Posted by DuckieTigger

True, but there is also not much need to shop around in the first place. Book retail prices are quite high in Germany without much wiggle room to discount. Interesting as well - I have never seen a bookstore (B&M) in Germany that would not order a book for free (no extra s&p) within a week or less. That even includes foreign (language) books that would not be stocked in store normally. Bookstores always had great service even when other retail stores were somewhat lacking.

OK, so:

Originally Posted by hansl

That was not my point but since you mention it: I want to have a choice of shops under legal circumstances for buying living literature (not only download 70+ years dead authors). Being locked with Adobe DRM still leaves a selection of booksellers. Being locked with Amazon doesn't, at least not in Germany.

is a complete non-issue? Sounds good.

[DuckieTigger]

Originally Posted by eschwartz

OK, so:



is a complete non-issue? Sounds good.

Minor inconveniences. Google is evil, Amazon is evil. Don't buy a eink Kindle then if you are so afraid of beeing locked in. I don't see the problem at all. Also don't buy any eink device that doesn't let you install the Kindle app and any ADE epub reader of your choice at the same time. Problem solved and completely legal. It is possible to make an issue out of anything you dislike.

Or, of course, liberate your books and read on any device you wish.

[eschwartz]

Originally Posted by DuckieTigger

Minor inconveniences. Google is evil, Amazon is evil. Don't buy a eink Kindle then if you are so afraid of beeing locked in. I don't see the problem at all. Also don't buy any eink device that doesn't let you install the Kindle app and any ADE epub reader of your choice at the same time. Problem solved and completely legal. It is possible to make an issue out of anything you dislike.

Or, of course, liberate your books and read on any device you wish.

I totally agree. I was just wondering what might make Germany a special snowflake in some peoples' minds.

[DuckieTigger]

Originally Posted by eschwartz

I totally agree. I was just wondering what might make Germany a special snowflake in some peoples' minds.

Book burnings for example was a pretty big deal. Actually anything WWI and WWII. Leaves people protective about their literature and holds books dear. Love of books appears to coincide with better education systems as well.

[hansl]

Originally Posted by eschwartz

And it is not Amazon who did that -- it is the publishers.

Additionally, what is harder in Germany than in the US, about sideloading DeDRMed books onto a Kindle?

Technically nothing. Unless that I don't buy a reader device which prevents me from legally using another store than Amazon. This is what you cannot avoid in Germany. I have heard that in the US there are non-Amazon stores which you can access for DRMed content using a Kindle. Is that right?

[ymmv]

Originally Posted by issybird

Hachette wants to do what's best for Hachette and Amazon wants what's best for Amazon. It's just like Market Basket, Jon. The customer pays as the big boys duke it out. I'm in the a-plague-on-both-their-houses camp.

Hachette wants to do what's best for Hachette and brick and mortar book stores. Amazon would be perfectly happy to demolish both bookstores and publishers and become the only place in town where you can buy books (and everything else under the sun).

Hachette wants to sell both ebooks and physical books (hardcovers/tradepapberack). With a simultaneous release of the hardcover and the ebook, the price of the ebook will be relatively high. Once the (trade) paperback is out, price of the ebook will drop. I'd hate to see brick and mortar bookstores go out of business because of Amazon's domination, so I support Hachette and other publishers who want to keep competition and choices alive. Amazon is far too dominant already, it shouldn't become even more so. Cheaper ebook prices isn't everything. Look at Walmart and how that company has ruined small businesses everywhere while paying their employees next to nothing.