Amazon MobiPocket files and the Iliad

pdam · 11-21-2007, 05:20 AM

Perhaps a silly question, but ... can The wealth of new MobiPocket files placed on Amazon to coincide with the launch of the Kindle be bought and used with the Iliad MobiPocket player?

tribble · 11-21-2007, 05:56 AM

No. Amazon will not allow it. Technically i guess it would not be a problem.

pdam · 11-21-2007, 06:15 AM

When you say - will not allow it - is it the download to a device they will not allow (e.g. you can only download to a Kindle, not to a PC) or is there some sort of extra DRM involved (e.g. files recognise the Kindle device and will only work on them?)

If you really can't get Amazon ebooks onto the Iliad, it sort of makes MobiPocket a dead duck of a format for the Ilaid moving forward, which is a shame ...

Nate the great · 11-21-2007, 06:28 AM

Currently, Amazon will not sell you a Kindle Edition ebook if you do not own a Kindle. Also, the Mobipocket software will tell you that the Kindle Edition did not come from an authorized retailer, and will refuse to display the ebook.

DaleDe · 11-21-2007, 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pdam

When you say - will not allow it - is it the download to a device they will not allow (e.g. you can only download to a Kindle, not to a PC) or is there some sort of extra DRM involved (e.g. files recognise the Kindle device and will only work on them?)

If you really can't get Amazon ebooks onto the Iliad, it sort of makes MobiPocket a dead duck of a format for the Ilaid moving forward, which is a shame ...

It is not the download, you cannot purchase a book if you don't own a Kindle. It is possible to download a Kindle book after the purchase to your computer and then move it over to the Kindle. EVDO is not required.

There is DRM that will not be accepted by Mobi reading devices, only Kindle.

There is no reason to believe MobiPocket is dead. There is no indication that it will be discontinued or affected in any way except the general industry push to get more content which should benefit MobiPocket since once an eBook exists it is easier to get it on other systems and the source files for Kindle and Mobi should be the same meaning no conversion needed.

Dale

narve · 11-21-2007, 05:22 PM

Remember that Amazon owns Mobipocket (!), and that the unencrypted mobi-files are the same as the unencrypted kindle files (.awx or something), just different extension. Perhaps the encrypted formats are the same.

The problem would still be that you can't buy amazonebooks to a non-kindle device-id, and vice versa.

igorsk · 11-21-2007, 05:30 PM

The encrypted formats ARE the same, I've checked.

ig88 · 11-22-2007, 09:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaleDe

There is no reason to believe MobiPocket is dead.

1) sheer title availability
2) more than 1/3 less expensive for new titles
3) brand name/marketing of Amazon

I love my iLiad, but nobody I know has every heard of it.

And I am Technology Director, so I run in tech circles.

Now all of that does not guarantee that MobiPocket is dead, but it should be a wake up call.

DaleDe · 11-23-2007, 01:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ig88

1) sheer title availability
2) more than 1/3 less expensive for new titles
3) brand name/marketing of Amazon

I love my iLiad, but nobody I know has every heard of it.

And I am Technology Director, so I run in tech circles.

Now all of that does not guarantee that MobiPocket is dead, but it should be a wake up call.

MobiPocket makes most of its money by licensing I believe. Other people sell MobiPocket books cheaper than MobiPocket does. they don't want to be in competition with their dealers.

If MobiPocket dies for the reasons you list then everybody else will to.

Dale

HarryT · 11-23-2007, 03:09 AM

Some of our American friends may perhaps not realise how entirely irrelevent the Kindle is to those of us who live outside the US. We can't buy it, nor its books.

MobiPocket is a world-wide business - always has been. The launch of a US-only device such as the Kindle is going to have not the slightest impact on that market.

pdam · 11-23-2007, 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryT

The launch of a US-only device such as the Kindle is going to have not the slightest impact on that market.

I'm not sure I agree with this HarryT - It's likely that if the Kindle is successful it'l be in Europe next year - you just have to look at Amazon's MO of rolling geographical deployment of their services.

As for MobiPocket (non-Kindle) being global, yes ... but it's still a fairly small business in an niche market, Amazon had the chance of taking their format wholly into the mainstream, sadly they have effectively branched their own product MobiPocket(Kindle) and MobiPocket(NonKindle).

pdam · 11-23-2007, 10:37 AM

...just thinking about this - it also makes the further development of features for the generic reader on the Iliad questionable - given their own device and the margin that they will get through the Amazon site - how much do they really want to compete with themselves in the long run - a rather black view perhaps, but ...

wallcraft · 11-25-2007, 01:57 PM

It does appear to be the case that AZW and MOBI are the same format. The difference is that a secure AZW file is locked to a single Kindle, but a secure MOBI can be read by up to 4 devices. Most publishers are not producing e-books exclusively for the Kindle, and if they have an AZW version then there is no extra work in producing a MOBI version.

So in the short term, I expect the range of MOBI e-books to increase and for the price of all e-books to go down. MOBI will probably be on average a bit more than AZW, but they are less restricted.

The folks who are being screwed are the Kindle owners, who can't buy DRMed books from anyone but Amazon. However, they can hardly say that Amazon has not made that very clear up front. The backlash is likely to come a couple of years from now when Kindle owners are looking for a new e-book reader and "discover" that their e-books are not transferable.

DaleDe · 11-25-2007, 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wallcraft

It does appear to be the case that AZW and MOBI are the same format. The difference is that a secure AZW file is locked to a single Kindle, but a secure MOBI can be read by up to 4 devices. Most publishers are not producing e-books exclusively for the Kindle, and if they have an AZW version then there is no extra work in producing a MOBI version.

So in the short term, I expect the range of MOBI e-books to increase and for the price of all e-books to go down. MOBI will probably be on average a bit more than AZW, but they are less restricted.

So much misinformation. Learn something before you post.

AZW licensing is done similar to Mobi licensing and multiple devices are allowed, up to 6 which is generally 2 more that mobi allows. Both are locked to devices but there can be a list of acceptable devices in both formats.

Yes, the source files can be the same in both formats so you got that part right. They are basically the same format except for the licensing. AZW without DRM can be read on a mobi device by changing the extension.

bojan · 11-25-2007, 07:10 PM

OK, maybe wallcraft overlooked the 6 (Kindle!) devices thing, but I agree with the point that he was making: it is very unlikely that you will be able to read any of your purchased DRM-ed AZW books on any other device, other then Kindle. Also, you can read MOBI books on any device that supports MOBI format, but it looks like Kindle will not be one of them.

Otherwise, I really like the Kindle, but as wallcraft pointed out, people are just not aware of the book vendor lock-in that they are facing for the coming years.

11-21-2007, 05:20 AM	#1
pdam Groupie Posts: 199 Karma: 100 Join Date: Aug 2006 Device: iLiad, iPaq, Psion5&7, Blackberry	Amazon MobiPocket files and the Iliad Perhaps a silly question, but ... can The wealth of new MobiPocket files placed on Amazon to coincide with the launch of the Kindle be bought and used with the Iliad MobiPocket player?

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11-21-2007, 05:56 AM	#2
tribble iLiad Maniac Posts: 1,382 Karma: 2369 Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Germany Device: Bookeen Opus (i love that thing) and iPad (what an irony)	No. Amazon will not allow it. Technically i guess it would not be a problem.

11-21-2007, 06:15 AM	#3
pdam Groupie Posts: 199 Karma: 100 Join Date: Aug 2006 Device: iLiad, iPaq, Psion5&7, Blackberry	When you say - will not allow it - is it the download to a device they will not allow (e.g. you can only download to a Kindle, not to a PC) or is there some sort of extra DRM involved (e.g. files recognise the Kindle device and will only work on them?) If you really can't get Amazon ebooks onto the Iliad, it sort of makes MobiPocket a dead duck of a format for the Ilaid moving forward, which is a shame ...

11-21-2007, 06:28 AM	#4
Nate the great Sir Penguin of Edinburgh Posts: 12,375 Karma: 23555235 Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: DC Metro area Device: Shake a stick plus 1	Currently, Amazon will not sell you a Kindle Edition ebook if you do not own a Kindle. Also, the Mobipocket software will tell you that the Kindle Edition did not come from an authorized retailer, and will refuse to display the ebook.

11-21-2007, 05:22 PM	#6
narve iLiad fan Posts: 210 Karma: 3864 Join Date: Oct 2006 Device: iRex iLiad	Remember that Amazon owns Mobipocket (!), and that the unencrypted mobi-files are the same as the unencrypted kindle files (.awx or something), just different extension. Perhaps the encrypted formats are the same. The problem would still be that you can't buy amazonebooks to a non-kindle device-id, and vice versa.

11-21-2007, 05:30 PM	#7
igorsk Wizard Posts: 3,442 Karma: 300001 Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Belgium Device: PRS-500/505/700, Kindle, Cybook Gen3, Words Gear	The encrypted formats ARE the same, I've checked.

11-23-2007, 03:09 AM	#10
HarryT eBook Enthusiast Posts: 85,544 Karma: 93383043 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: UK Device: Kindle Oasis 2, iPad Pro 10.5", iPhone 6	Some of our American friends may perhaps not realise how entirely irrelevent the Kindle is to those of us who live outside the US. We can't buy it, nor its books. MobiPocket is a world-wide business - always has been. The launch of a US-only device such as the Kindle is going to have not the slightest impact on that market.

11-23-2007, 10:37 AM	#12
pdam Groupie Posts: 199 Karma: 100 Join Date: Aug 2006 Device: iLiad, iPaq, Psion5&7, Blackberry	...just thinking about this - it also makes the further development of features for the generic reader on the Iliad questionable - given their own device and the margin that they will get through the Amazon site - how much do they really want to compete with themselves in the long run - a rather black view perhaps, but ...

11-25-2007, 01:57 PM	#13
wallcraft reader Posts: 6,975 Karma: 5183568 Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Mississippi, USA Device: Kindle 3, Kobo Glo HD	It does appear to be the case that AZW and MOBI are the same format. The difference is that a secure AZW file is locked to a single Kindle, but a secure MOBI can be read by up to 4 devices. Most publishers are not producing e-books exclusively for the Kindle, and if they have an AZW version then there is no extra work in producing a MOBI version. So in the short term, I expect the range of MOBI e-books to increase and for the price of all e-books to go down. MOBI will probably be on average a bit more than AZW, but they are less restricted. The folks who are being screwed are the Kindle owners, who can't buy DRMed books from anyone but Amazon. However, they can hardly say that Amazon has not made that very clear up front. The backlash is likely to come a couple of years from now when Kindle owners are looking for a new e-book reader and "discover" that their e-books are not transferable.

11-25-2007, 07:10 PM	#15
bojan Enthusiast Posts: 48 Karma: 68 Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Slovenia Device: iRex iLiad	OK, maybe wallcraft overlooked the 6 (Kindle!) devices thing, but I agree with the point that he was making: it is very unlikely that you will be able to read any of your purchased DRM-ed AZW books on any other device, other then Kindle. Also, you can read MOBI books on any device that supports MOBI format, but it looks like Kindle will not be one of them. Otherwise, I really like the Kindle, but as wallcraft pointed out, people are just not aware of the book vendor lock-in that they are facing for the coming years.