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Old 11-08-2018, 07:27 PM   #1
mkberg
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Exclamation Specific reason for no color temp adjustment on any Kindles?

Would anyone happen to have direct knowledge from an Amazon engineer as to why they don't release a kindle with the option of adjusting color temp?

I would really like to know why the continued omission.

Regardless of the comments I've read from others regarding the affect or not affecting the eyes, I find it incredibly relaxing to adjust the temperature and brightness to match the light of the room I am in.

For me, this feature is way more important than waterproofing and audible. Audible.... really?
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Old 11-08-2018, 07:59 PM   #2
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Can you even do that with e ink? Are you talking about color changes in the illuminating lights?
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Old 11-08-2018, 08:04 PM   #3
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Can you even do that with e ink? Are you talking about color changes in the illuminating lights?
He's talking about colour changes in the frontlight. That is one of the features I really like about my Kobo Aura One though I tend to find those who want to run the colour temp to "candlelit" a bit amusing.
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Old 11-08-2018, 08:44 PM   #4
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So that they can sell you another new, ereader next year.
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Old 11-08-2018, 09:10 PM   #5
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The Paperwhite is the Kindle they sell in the largest volume. Putting something they haven’t done before could cause problems if there are any production issues. Also, if there is a problem with the new feature, they will have lots of units out there quicker with the Paperwhite than they would with a new Oasis. I would expect the first Kindle with a color change light to be a new Oasis for those reasons.
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Old 11-08-2018, 09:18 PM   #6
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I expect they will add it someday. It took years and years for them to finally add the custom fonts option. OTOH, it took years and years for Kobo to add page turn buttons (the main reason I've never bought a Kobo), whereas Amazon has always had at least one Kindle with buttons.

They all juggle with different options according to some internal logic no one else understands.
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Old 11-08-2018, 09:39 PM   #7
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I would really expect that it would be the Amazon MARKETING dept you need to talk to for an answer rather than the engineering dept. I'm sure they could do it from a technical perspective if they wanted, but obviously (right or wrong) they don't see the economic advantage of doing so yet.
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Old 11-08-2018, 09:57 PM   #8
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Quote:
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So that they can sell you another new, ereader next year.
How sad Kindle didn't have to come out with a reworked Paperwhite and I'm not sniping at them because it isn't exactly what "I" want. I guess I'm one of the rare people who don't think they drive the research and the market.

It might be something as simple as low demand. If I wanted my Paperwhite to have orange lights I'd wear some orange glasses.
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Old 11-09-2018, 12:53 AM   #9
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A kobo does. Vote with your wallet!
https://www.kobo.com/help/en-US/arti...n-your-ereader
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Old 11-09-2018, 02:28 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by robko View Post
I would really expect that it would be the Amazon MARKETING dept you need to talk to for an answer rather than the engineering dept. I'm sure they could do it from a technical perspective if they wanted, but obviously (right or wrong) they don't see the economic advantage of doing so yet.
Yep. Obviously Amazon figured waterproofing and built-in Audible support was more important than installing colored LEDs. Maybe Amazon is not yet happy with the quality control of the night lighting yet. I don't know, I expected the new Paperwhite to have night lighting also, but I didn't expect it to be waterproof (so, obviously, someone else's priorities). If they did both it would probably bump the Paperwhites out of $130 range and they wouldn't have a "low-end," front-lit reader.

Suggestion to the original poster, since this is your second thread on this subject it's obvious you want a Reader with colored LEDs. Kobo makes readers with colored LEDs as does Barnes & Noble and several others. You might want to look at one of these. I don't know what more I can say. Amazon's priorities don't match yours.
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Old 11-09-2018, 04:32 PM   #11
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The Kindles only use so called "White" LEDs, so no "color temperature" change is possible.
I use a nice color temperature of reading light. Or daylight. I don't use the LED front light on my Kobo or Kindle.

It's fake colour temperature on ANY LED front light, LED lighting or LCD using LED back lights as it's a discontinuous spectrum. A fixed "white" is the so called "White" LEDs which are Blue/Violet/Near UV part of spectrum depending on physical type (affects cost). The white appearance is from phosphors.
A CFL, CCFL, Fluorescent lamp is much shorter UV, so the phosphors work better.
Also a better spectrum (better colour Rendition, apparent Colour Temperature is separate) needs shorter UV (no LED) and more phosphors (less light). So high efficiency CFL are very discontinuous and a bit blue, good colour rendition is less efficient. The apparent colour temperature is down to mix of phosphors.
A "White" LED might only have one or two phosphors, cheapest uses just yellow and with blue of cheap LED you get a white appearance. Huge gaps in spectrum.
so called "Adjustable" Color temperature front lights on eInk need either Red, Green and Blue LEDs or Yellow and Blue (cheaper). Both of these are more expensive than blue/violet LEDs with yellow phosphor coating.
LCD panels can do apparent colour temperature change by the LCD itself (which is monochrome but with coloured dye dots on each pixel, either R G B, or R G and G B on alternate lines or sometimes R G B Y). Only very expensive TV / Monitor panels use R G B LEDs instead of "white". Also cheaper LCD panels only use LED at the edges.
The OLED are not "real" LEDs. they are diode like Electroluminescent dots that use phosphors. Only very large hall / stadium displays and the Sony Crystal screen use real R G B LEDs.
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Old 11-09-2018, 04:44 PM   #12
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Compare R G B LEDs adjusted to white, a "White" LED, high efficiency CCFL, an art CCFL, halogen light and daylight on a very large box of colouring pencils or other physical wide spectrum items, not a photo or printout (they are narrow C Y M K).
You'll be amazed.
Or use the rear of a pressed CD as diffraction splitter to make a rainbow. No gaps on halogen or daylight.
Some household LED lamps are GARBAGE at colour RENDITION, no matter what the illusion of colour TEMPERATURE is.
To not affect sleep, you need light with very little blue. Not very possible with LEDs unless a mix of yellow and blue with blue off.
Best LED lamps are some of the better "filament" style as they mix other colours of LED with the blue LEDs, they use very many LEDs at lower power (cooler) and thus the predominantly yellow phosphor is longer life and more efficient. Also they don't need a low voltage SMPSU destroying radio reception as there are 22 to 28 LEDs per "filament" and over all runs direct off 110V (or 220V twice as many "filaments") via a rectifier.
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Old 11-09-2018, 04:52 PM   #13
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Waterproofing is a design thing, can be done at no extra cost, or very little (rubber bung on Kobo original H2O)
A WiFi chip can have Bluetooth at no extra cost (probably the WiFi + BT kindles have an FM radio in the chip too, some of the iPhones do, though it's not and can't be used. Headphone cable is the aerial on phones that do have working FM radio).
The multicoloured LED front light costs significantly more than plain "white" LEDs (really bluish with a yellow phosphor). Possible that the new PW4 costs no more than PW3 did.
Eventually it can reduce costs simply to replace a model with newer cheaper chips, or a chip can become obsolescent forcing a design refresh.
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Old 11-09-2018, 05:22 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by FrustratedReader View Post
The Kindles only use so called "White" LEDs, so no "color temperature" change is possible.
I use a nice color temperature of reading light. Or daylight. I don't use the LED front light on my Kobo or Kindle.

It's fake colour temperature on ANY LED front light, LED lighting or LCD using LED back lights as it's a discontinuous spectrum. A fixed "white" is the so called "White" LEDs which are Blue/Violet/Near UV part of spectrum depending on physical type (affects cost). The white appearance is from phosphors.
A CFL, CCFL, Fluorescent lamp is much shorter UV, so the phosphors work better.
Also a better spectrum (better colour Rendition, apparent Colour Temperature is separate) needs shorter UV (no LED) and more phosphors (less light). So high efficiency CFL are very discontinuous and a bit blue, good colour rendition is less efficient. The apparent colour temperature is down to mix of phosphors.
A "White" LED might only have one or two phosphors, cheapest uses just yellow and with blue of cheap LED you get a white appearance. Huge gaps in spectrum.
so called "Adjustable" Color temperature front lights on eInk need either Red, Green and Blue LEDs or Yellow and Blue (cheaper). Both of these are more expensive than blue/violet LEDs with yellow phosphor coating.
LCD panels can do apparent colour temperature change by the LCD itself (which is monochrome but with coloured dye dots on each pixel, either R G B, or R G and G B on alternate lines or sometimes R G B Y). Only very expensive TV / Monitor panels use R G B LEDs instead of "white". Also cheaper LCD panels only use LED at the edges.
The OLED are not "real" LEDs. they are diode like Electroluminescent dots that use phosphors. Only very large hall / stadium displays and the Sony Crystal screen use real R G B LEDs.
I don't think you've tried any LEDs recently. They're very good. Like amazing good. The color problem has been somewhat solved by moving away from UV (its a big deal in art because it degrades organic materials). http://www.nichia.co.jp/en/about_nic...18_012501.html They can probably get away with a series of 5000K and 3000K lights that dim accordingly.

Then again it won't make me upgrade either. Kindles have long stagnated, they're mostly designed for reading romance novels and not large enough for reading more technical stuff. Are you excited for any technology in reading?
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Old 11-09-2018, 05:43 PM   #15
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I don't think you've tried any LEDs recently. They're very good. Like amazing good. The color problem has been somewhat solved by moving away from UV (its a big deal in art because it degrades organic materials).
Um, no. Only the low power per LED filament ones are better.
I regularly examine this stuff, also being scientifically trained and having been a design engineer, broadcast engineer and photographer, I know how this stuff ACTUALLY works, I do not go by the adverts.
Also less UV makes the colour WORSE.
The point is to convert the UV to visible light with the phosphor. Decent CFL and LED do not actually radiate UV.
Obviously daylight fades artwork. Decent LED, CFL, Florescent and halogen lamps for art display have UV filters.

The colour rendition problem is worst with the COB and similar LEDs (the one to nine high power types) and highest efficiency CFLs as well as higher efficiency LEDs.

I do think the idea of mixed colour LEDs so as to be able to have a less blue front light (as per some Kobos) is a good one as the evidence suggests the excess blue (WORSE in LEDs with LESS UV) is bad for sleep and degrades the retina.
So I don't use the fixed "white" front lights on my PW3 or Kobo H2O if there is any alternative. I have good enough lights to read old books, so never need front light on at home.
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