Epub-problems in tablets

[Tex2002ans]

Originally Posted by lumpynose

I think I've been confused because there's also a 4th type, the dual MOBI, which has both KF7 and KF8, if I understand correctly.

It's already drifting far from the original topic... but I'll quickly answer.

The "Dual MOBI" that gets created by KindleGen/Kindle Previewer includes all 3 of those formats.

If you want more discussion on all this, probably best to start a separate topic. (Or just read the many other posts on this... like my 2 Reddit posts explained this all in-depth.)

Originally Posted by lumpynose

And then a lot of web sites talk about MOBI like it's the go to kindle format.

Yes, it's confusing.

MOBI is the "Kindle Format", MOBI is the name of the "Dual MOBI", and MOBI is also the name for the old MOBI (KF7) file format.

And there's also a ton of mumbo jumbo written out there by non-technical people, so they don't even consider or know of these sub-formats within Kindle... so they just start calling everything MOBI.

Originally Posted by lumpynose

Hitch convinced me that when uploading here that I should upload the dual MOBI; I was going to extract the KF8 and upload that.

Yes, Hitch is correct.

Amazon only supports files created from their official tools, KindleGen and Kindle Previewer.

The "Dual MOBI" those tools create include:

• MOBI (KF7)
• KF8
• Original Source File
  • They keep this, just in case future Amazon formats come along (like KFX, so now they can go through their backlog, updating old books).

You upload that to Amazon, and Amazon takes care of the rest, then distributes the proper file to the proper device.

[lumpynose]

Ok, thanks. I'll go read those reddit posts.

[DNSB]

Originally Posted by lumpynose

How can I test on RMSDK? I have ADE and Kindle Previewer installed.

Generally, RMSDK and ADE are quite close so if it looks good in an older ADE 2/3 install, it'll look good on an RMSDK based ereader. I avoid ADE 4.5 as Adobe has added more epub3 features than current—available to me—RMSDK versions and that has bitten me once or twice.

[Tex2002ans]

Originally Posted by DNSB

Generally, RMSDK and ADE are quite close so if it looks good in an older ADE 2/3 install, it'll look good on an RMSDK based ereader.

I know JSWolf foams at the mouth whenever people mention newer versions of ADE.

He also has posts with direct links to the old versions. He promotes ADE v2.0.1 (which closely matches the RMSDK version used in many EPUB2 ereaders):

https://www.mobileread.com/forums/sh...70#post3647370

I forget what version I settled on on my old computer, I think I used 3.0. JSWolf probably has the old links somewhere. :P

Originally Posted by lumpynose

Ok, thanks. I'll go read those reddit posts.

Complete Side Note: I should've also linked to these 2 Reddit topics where I wrote massive amounts of information too:

Tutorials on how to format for an ebook?
A Question about Sigil

I got so sick and tired of seeing bogus information and nonsense about ebook code on that subreddit... I decided to answer a ton of questions in my usual in-depth style.

[DNSB]

Originally Posted by Tex2002ans

EPUB3

EPUB3 is split:

• Many are Readium-based, including ADE.
• Kobo uses Nickel (I believe it's Webkit-based).
• iBooks has been off doing their own thing the entire time (Webkit-based).

When Kobo entered the Japanese market, they used the ACCESS NetFront™ BookReader EPUB edition as the renderer for epub3 files which is Webkit based. The name has changed to PubPlus Reader and ACCESS has donated much of their code to the Readium Foundation since Kobo's original use. The dual renderer is why Kobo uses .epub for epub2 files and kepub.epub for epub3 files (the kepub also adds some spans and other oddments but they have little to no effect on the rendering of the ebook). If you enjoy machine translated text or can read Japanese, check PUBLUS Reader as a starting point for more information.

[Tex2002ans]

Originally Posted by DNSB

When Kobo entered the Japanese market, they used the ACCESS NetFront™ BookReader EPUB edition as the renderer for epub3 files which is Webkit based.

Thanks for that info.

[lumpynose]

Originally Posted by Tex2002ans

Complete Side Note: I should've also linked to these 2 Reddit topics where I wrote massive amounts of information too:

Tutorials on how to format for an ebook?
A Question about Sigil

I got so sick and tired of seeing bogus information and nonsense about ebook code on that subreddit... I decided to answer a ton of questions in my usual in-depth style.

More things to read! Thanks.

[graycyn]

Originally Posted by Tex2002ans

The issue with most Android readers (such as Moon+), is that they throw away almost 100% of the book's CSS, and override completely with user styles. Even basics like:

• Negative indented poetry
• blank margins separating scenes

become completely mangled.

Gitden and PocketBook are damn good, and do a great job of following the original CSS, while still allowing some user-setting leeway.

The best you can do is code your book properly for the major retailers/ereaders, and ignore these non-standards compliant Android apps. If a user decides to use one of those apps, they should be aware of the flaws that come along for the ride.

Side Note: I've been using Gitden Reader on my phone for years. It's been my go-to that entire time if I'm not reading on my ereader. Downside is the app hasn't been updated for years.

Within the past few weeks, I had PocketBook recommended to me. It's updated more often, and from what I can tell so far, it's one of the best Android readers.

PocketBook uses Webkit-based rendering, or you can alternatively use ADE (RMSDK [EPUB2]/Readium [EPUB3])... so it should support lots of advanced CSS, and in ADE mode, it should display extremely similar to actual ereaders.

Yep, I like Gitden and Pocketbook. Gitden has some tablet issues though, if they are not the longer, skinny video style aspect ratio. On tablets closer to a 4:3 ratio, Gitden will chop cover images in SVG wrappers (also other images in same), and display the chopped bit on the next page. Fine on phones though.


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[graycyn]

Originally Posted by DNSB

My personal preferences are 1500x1000 (3:2) or 1500x1125 (4:3). Larger images tend to give me an epub file where the text takes <300K and the cover image is >500K. I'd rather have the smaller cover image and file size.

If the ebook looks good in ADE and/or RMSDK, with the epub3 renderer on my Kobo and with Kindle Previewer, that's as far as I go. The few times that I wasted hours trying to make an ebook look good on multiple renderers were pretty much exactly that: wasted hours. This renderer doesn't center text unless it is wrapped in a centered div, this one doesn't won't scale the image in a graphic scene break, this one tosses out the CSS embedded in the ebook and uses it's own builtin CSS, this one makes any dropcaps look like crapcaps, etc.

I suppose images vs. text all depends. I have a limited edition book published 1930. 850 copies. Probably far fewer left around now. The author, a steeplechase jockey, only wrote this one book as far as I can find out. Though his account of his American steeplechasing season is fun, it's not exactly great literature. What makes the book valuable are the numerous illustrations, including full color by a noted equine artist.

I care not that the text file size is considerably less than what the image file sizes will be. Anyone interested in the book would be interested BECAUSE of the images! This is a book where people buy it, cut the color plates out and sell them separately on eBay for people to hang on their walls, sigh....

So you can see why I might prefer to keep images high quality at the expense of not being compatible with Aldiko!

There's just too many reading apps, and tons of them ignore CSS one way or another. Maybe if I live 'til this book hits public domain, Aldiko will have updated to support a decent image resolution. If not, I don't plan to worry over it. I started out trying to make ebooks that could work and look good on numerous Android reader apps, and I gave it up. As you say, wasted hours!

If OK in ADE, converts beautifully with Kindle Previewer for KF8, and OK in iBooks, I'm good. Usually, such will remain readable by most apps, tho some can mangle things like indentation, scenebreaks and other whitespace enough to make readability debatable, LOL!


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[lumpynose]

Originally Posted by Tex2002ans

He also has posts with direct links to the old versions. He promotes ADE v2.0.1 (which closely matches the RMSDK version used in many EPUB2 ereaders):

https://www.mobileread.com/forums/sh...70#post3647370

Well I got the ADE 2.0.1 version you had a link to on reddit. Heh, with it all of my h? chapter headers are broke. As the saying goes, no rest for the wicked .

[Tex2002ans]

Originally Posted by graycyn

There's just too many reading apps, and tons of them ignore CSS one way or another. Maybe if I live 'til this book hits public domain, Aldiko will have updated to support a decent image resolution. If not, I don't plan to worry over it.

I would be interested in seeing this book that doesn't display images properly. If you could PM me a copy, I could take a look and see if I can figure anything out.

[graycyn]

Originally Posted by Tex2002ans

I would be interested in seeing this book that doesn't display images properly. If you could PM me a copy, I could take a look and see if I can figure anything out.

I can't, it's under copyright. Further, it wasn't the only book I'd had the image problem on with Aldiko, it has been an issue with every book for some time now.

And, there's a new wrinkle as of today!

Although PREVIOUSLY, it wouldn't display the author image and borked the whole author page, today, having cleaned up scans of the dust jacket (front and back) and added those images (1460 x 2200) to the book, every image in the book is displaying correctly!

I just thought I'd try it one more time, and a miracle!

No other changes, not to CSS, nothing, just adding two images to the book, front and back covers, both in SVG wrappers, because the dust jacket was a wrapround. The only code change was to adjust the dimensions and filename from my 'fill-in' stock template cover to the new images.

So, apologies to the Aldiko app for my previous disgust, but something got changed in the app I think. I was using a fresh app download today, as I'd uninstalled the app as hopeless. Further, I checked it on both phone and Nexus 9, all is good!

Actually, I even tested both on the old classic premium version which I own and the newer version. No difference in rendering my book between them.

I tried to check on iPad, but the share option, Copy to Aldiko did not work for me.

So now I'm just MYSTIFIED!

And I'm going to do some new image size testing for fun when I get the chance. See if I can go to a 1600 pixel wide dimension and what apps fail with that.


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[lumpynose]

Originally Posted by graycyn

... No other changes, ...

Famous last words.

[exaltedwombat]

Originally Posted by graycyn

And I'm going to do some new image size testing for fun when I get the chance. See if I can go to a 1600 pixel wide dimension and what apps fail with that.

I THINK it's a pixel-count restriction, not just width or height.

[graycyn]

Originally Posted by exaltedwombat

I THINK it's a pixel-count restriction, not just width or height.

You are probably right. I do want to at least try a larger image size amongst the better apps, see what I might can get away with. It's been a couple years since I last messed with that.

But wait, there's more!

I normally test ebooks on my Pixel C tablet. Large 300dpi screen, it's the newest Android device I own, I saw no reason NOT to use it for testing. I prefer larger screen devices. Until now and this one, single solitary reader app.

But the Pixel C is the vector for the problem!

Out of 4 Android devices, using a fresh Aldiko install and freshly downloaded book file, ONLY the Pixel C/Aldiko has missing images!

All are perfectly fine on Nexus 7 (2013)/Aldiko, Nexus 9/Aldiko and a Nexus 6p phone running Aldiko.

Every device is running some version of stock Android. I even checked that Aldiko app settings were the same, no change. Then I played with settings on the Pixel C, in case it preferred, say, different margins to the other tablets, but could not get covers or author image to ever display.

So I'm a little less mystified, but can see no reason the book/app combo should work on 3 Android tablets, but not on the 4th. All I know is that I'm glad I only do this as a hobby!




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