Color No future for this device

[lorenzoens]

Originally Posted by Valentinka

You probably right that it was my fault that I didn't do ENOUGH research before buying JBC.

I think the same, you're wrong if you trust what companies say in the advertisings. Most of them lie.

That's why we're here, this is one of the main purpose of sharing knowledge and information in forums. To provide independent reports and objective data, so that everyone draws his conclusions wheter to buy or not a product.

For example: you did very well with your comparative pictures, they're useful.
I opened a thread about zoom and reflow capabilities on this and other 9,7" devices: one may say "I don't need any zoom with the kind of docs I read", but nonetheless that can be useful, non opinionated data, useful for someone else.

[Ken Maltby]

Originally Posted by lorenzoens

Readabilty is subjective. Too much to discuss about it.

Our eyesight is different, and sometimes it differs even in the same person, from day to day: in this same thread there's a hawk-eyed user which sees even in the dark, but sometimes finds a powerful lighting like very weak. It's fine like this.

Seriously: readability is a too subjective topic to discuss about.

Everyone makes his own ideas from comparative pictures with two or more devices near to each other. Let's hope we can have lots available soon, in the most different contexts, so that everyone can decide in which conditions a screen is better than another: in relation of the kind of documents everyone has to read, where one lives, how often reads in outdoors, et cetera.

edit: No Valentinka, you're not wasting your time. Some users dont like what you say, so they would like you (and me) to shut up.

In your original post (OP), you talked about how "Your eyes" saw the display,
right after you explained that you were basing your comments and opinion on
the published reports, not any personnel experience with the device. These
same reports that we all have seen, most posted or linked to here at MR.
While you appear to think otherwise, your conclusions are no more definitive
than mine or any of the rest of us without a JBC.

You have no more to go by, no special access. This may also surprise you,
but I think hearing your opinion is interesting and should be of some
entertainment value, if nothing else, so there is some value to seeing what
you have taken from the same information sources we have all seen ourselves.
But I, at least, am quite capable of forming my own opinions and conclusions.

Now there are other posters who can make direct observations of the device
in question, as they have it in their possession, so I find their observations of
much greater interest than your conclusions. Some of them have encountered
issues that they dislike and have generously described the problems as they see
them. Some have also mentioned features that they liked or at least found great
promise for.

So, No "lorenzoens" you and "Valentinka" are not the same. And while I would
much prefer to hear more from those with a JBC than from those who just
have an opinion about them, NO One has suggested that anyone "Shut Up".

Luck;
Ken

P.S.; I still find it odd that your negative impression, based on the reports
you have seen, should so motivate you not only to create this thread but
to so energetically espouse your antagonism toward this device.

[lorenzoens]

The answers are in the previous posts. Everyone who wants to make his own idea about what you say, can read the thread (and the others).

Now I prefer to spend my time to talk about FACTS, instead of repeating the same things.

Facts related to how this ereader performs in relation of the different tasks, and compared to the others.

How fast is it?
How does it display colours?
How is its screen readable compared to others?
Which are its main limits?
Is there something it can do better than others?
Is the company going to improve it?

Et cetera.
At present the most useful answers will not be more opinions, we've already wrote even too many of them.
I gave my opinion in the starting of the thread which wasnt' ever intended to be a review. Now that I know some more about it, the main opinion isn't changed at all.

[mod186k1]

To: @Valentinka and some others.

Well,
maybe I express my toughs not very well. Here then you a simple test to prove you the color sometime are of crucial importance.

Lady Valentinka, try the attached PDF on JBC and on Kindle or any other eink-pearl, perhaps you will understand what I mean.



What is the "purple area"? and others? Depending of desaturation algorithm implemented on your B/W eReader you could have several RBG color mapped into the same Grayscale color. Of course in Triton can occurs the same because of only 4096 colors but the cases are a "bit" less (pearl has 16 grey level).

Keep in mind I could find worse examples if I would.

Ok, so there are cases in what kindle/M92 doesn't show document well. Can you really assert kindle (or M92) is rubbish? well, I can't! Pearl eink is very fantastic for reading B/W static documents.

P.s: the PDF I used JBC-test.pdf

[lorenzoens]

If most of the time you read docs where colours contain a necessary information to understand the content, you'll see your options restricted to a tablet*** or the jbc, at present (or to order a Kyobo from Korea of from Ebay). We already agreed on this countless times and it's obvious. but it's ok, Valentinka is the new arrived so she may not have considered that for someone having colours may be worth spending 2000 dollars for a reading device, and accept some defects, when necessary.

The key is to distinguish what is generally true for an average user, what may be specifically true for a particular kind of user, and what there is in common between them.

***(Not for Mod but for everyone: I beg all of you let's avoid repeating all the same things about lcd/PixelQi/eink, we're aware of their differences already, or at least we should. We know in which conditions someone should prefer a backlighted display or not, there's no universal solution for everyone. Thanks from the deep of my heart)

[mod186k1]

Originally Posted by lorenzoens

How fast is it?

http://www.ectaco.com/posts/list/77639.page

Originally Posted by lorenzoens

How does it display colours?

Again?
Well, I think this is the best answer:
https://www.mobileread.com/forums/att...0&d=1330943803

Originally Posted by lorenzoens

How is its screen readable compared to others?

There are a lot of XXXX vs JBC here (and even on Simplicissimus).

Originally Posted by lorenzoens

Which are its main limits?

"main" is subjective... could we do a static study?

Originally Posted by lorenzoens

Is there something it can do better than others?

Yes, of course. But not in absolutely way: it is a compromess: passive color screen vs active LCD vs bright B/W only eink. The most benefit I could find: I can read a color documents (where color are important) without strain my sight. Very good stylus input system (but there are other eReader with equal good system too)

Originally Posted by lorenzoens

Is the company going to improve it?

I hope so They say so... "who lives will know" (is an italian expression I don't know if you in USA or UK say something like it)

Originally Posted by lorenzoens

Et cetera.
At present the most useful answers will not be more opinions, we've already wrote even too many of them.
I gave my opinion in the starting of the thread which wasnt' ever intended to be a review. Now that I know some more about it, the main opinion isn't changed at all.

You are welcome.

[mod186k1]

Originally Posted by lorenzoens

If most of the time you read docs where colours contain a necessary information to understand the content, you'll see your options restricted to a tablet or the jbc, at present (or to order a Kyobo from Korea of from Ebay). We already agreed on this countless times and it's obvious.

It was just an example to say you simply cannot say "kindle/M92 are always the best". I could even would do an example with a foreground color in grayscale has the same color of backgroud. My conclusion is: even so pearl is a fantastic technology and for this motive I continue to use it to read romance and sci-fi

[lorenzoens]

hey I didnt mean that you have to answer all these questions in one post, any thread would become an inextricable jungle of messages. I just listed some of the main questions, just a few of them have already been addressed -and not exhaustively.

I suggest opening a specific thread for every new question / topic is better and gives everyone the occasion to dig deep
Unless you ask me to give here my asnwers to those questions.

Making a good video with comparatives would be another option.

Originally Posted by mod186k1

It was just an example to say you simply cannot say "kindle/M92 are always the best"

No acknowledged man would write that, I'm with you as you know.

You can only say X and Y are better than Z in relation to the common tasks one usually performs while reading. But even a single feature of Z, if one has not budget restrictions, may be worth of buying it.

Thats' why we need to dig into the main features. When you talk about specific facts, trolls will hardly have something to say.

[Dulin's Books]

Originally Posted by mod186k1

Can you really assert kindle (or M92) is rubbish?

yes I can unequivocally state that kindle dx is rubbish. kindle dxg(pearl) only slightly less so.

[Valentinka]

Originally Posted by mod186k1

To: @Valentinka and some others.

Well,
maybe I express my toughs not very well. Here then you a simple test to prove you the color sometime are of crucial importance.

Lady Valentinka, try the attached PDF on JBC and on Kindle or any other eink-pearl, perhaps you will understand what I mean.

Attachment 84144

What is the "purple area"? and others? Depending of desaturation algorithm implemented on your B/W eReader you could have several RBG color mapped into the same Grayscale color. Of course in Triton can occurs the same because of only 4096 colors but the cases are a "bit" less (pearl has 16 grey level).

Keep in mind I could find worse examples if I would.

Ok, so there are cases in what kindle/M92 doesn't show document well. Can you really assert kindle (or M92) is rubbish? well, I can't! Pearl eink is very fantastic for reading B/W static documents.

P.s: the PDF I used Attachment 84145

Dear mod186k1,

First of all I would like to thank you for your very valuable (at least for me) input into this discussion. I really respect your opinion. I downloaded your file. I loaded your file to each of my 3 devices: JBC, DX and iPad 2. I loaded your file without any modification from my side (how it is) and opened it on each of my 3 devices. I JUST opened your file on each device and didn't do anything else (reflow, zoom and etc)

The reason I decided to include iPad 2 into this comparison (about colors) is that in my opinion between these 3 devices only iPad 2 can display colors WELL. And your already know my approach to displaying colors: or display them WELL (iPad 2) or dont display them AT ALL (just display them in B/W) like DX does and don't mislead people. That is what JBC is basically doing in terms of colors: misleading people.

This is just my own opinion based on my personal experience with JBC. And I am very happy for everyone who enjoys having colors on their JBCs. And I respect their opinions, too.

P.S. And again - ghosting, ghosting, ghosting on JBC. I understand that it is not connected to the color issue I discuss in my post. Maybe somebody even doesn't notice it. But it bothers ME a lot (see the text from the previous page with so called purple color on JBC). Sorry for mentionnig it again, but this ghosting just REALLY bothers me A LOT. None of my other devices does it.

[mod186k1]

Originally Posted by Dulin's Books

yes I can unequivocally state that kindle dx is rubbish. kindle dxg(pearl) only slightly less so.

You are missing my point. First we are talking now about screen technology. Pearl works great for all Grayscale document and is very similar to paper, but it not always "the best". This is my the point.

Hope I clear my thought this time.

[mod186k1]

Originally Posted by Valentinka

The reason I decided to include iPad 2 into this comparison (about colors) is that in my opinion between these 3 devices only iPad 2 can display colors WELL. And your already know my approach to displaying colors: or display them WELL (iPad 2) or dont display them AT ALL (just display them in B/W) like DX does and don't mislead people. That is what JBC is basically doing in terms of colors: misleading people.

you have 3 tech: A, B, C

A has this advantages: xa, ya, za

C has this advantages: xc, yc, zc

B has this advantages: xa, ya, zc

B could perform xa worse then A and zc little worse then C.

But The real advantage of B is that, even so, B still has xa, ya, zc in one.

Well better than this I can't explain

P.s.: I don't pretend you change your mind (I hope you will have your money or your old JBL back), but I would like to explain to you what I and other find of good in JBC and why we consider it a good eReder (even if we are now talking only about the screen).

[Valentinka]

Originally Posted by mod186k1

you have 3 tech: A, B, C

A has this advantages: xa, ya, za

C has this advantages: xc, yc, zc

B has this advantages: xa, ya, zc

B could perform xa worse then A and zc little worse then C.

But The real advantage of B is that, even so, B still has xa, ya, zc in one.

Well better than this I can't explain

I understand your point. And for me DXG dispays your file MUCH better (even in B/W vs co called JBC's color). But I know from my own experience that if I REALLY need COLOR I am using my iPad 2. If I need color but not as much I would prefer to read it in B/W with DXG instead of JBC like in case of your file. Just talking about your particular file. You asked me the question. I hope I clearly answered it.

[lorenzoens]

I hypothesize that for acceptable / satisfying results in displaying colour documents with JBC, Ectaco (or maybe the same E-ink) should spread a guide about which are the colours nicely visible with JBC, so that users can optimize their docs. They may even publish a software to optymize the colours of those documents.

Why do I think this?
Please note the "The purple area..." written text on the compared devices here

seen converted by the DXG gray scale, it's better readable (better contrasted) than the jbc coloured one (even if the light source comes from the right) which instead becomes like grayish (not blue at all).

I'm assuming that this light blue may be one of those colours which are not well visible with Tritons. At least, not with the standard home/office lighting but rather in outdoors

I know this would kinda be a defeat for the Triton project, but at least people could have the best out of their device

[ProDigit]

Originally Posted by mod186k1

To: @Valentinka and some others.

Well,
maybe I express my toughs not very well. Here then you a simple test to prove you the color sometime are of crucial importance.

Lady Valentinka, try the attached PDF on JBC and on Kindle or any other eink-pearl, perhaps you will understand what I mean.

Attachment 84144

What is the "purple area"? and others? Depending of desaturation algorithm implemented on your B/W eReader you could have several RBG color mapped into the same Grayscale color. Of course in Triton can occurs the same because of only 4096 colors but the cases are a "bit" less (pearl has 16 grey level).

Keep in mind I could find worse examples if I would.

Ok, so there are cases in what kindle/M92 doesn't show document well. Can you really assert kindle (or M92) is rubbish? well, I can't! Pearl eink is very fantastic for reading B/W static documents.

P.s: the PDF I used Attachment 84145

I wanted to add, that though it may look like certain pictures on the Jetbook are more pixelated then on another e-ink reader, I do believe the reason for that is because pearl e-ink has 16 gray levels, and the JBC has only 8.
However, the JBC, as 8 shades of any color too. 8 shades of yellow, orange red, green, blue, purple, etc, etc, totaling ~4000 and something colors.
A pearl e-ink b&w has only 16 colors at best!

If the JBC had 16 gray levels, it would have 16Million colors in total, and images would look more smooth. Right now they look more like a 256color image on a computer (technically they are 12 bit instead of 8).