Some serious issues with kepubs

[Anak]

What triggered me to start this thread was this answer from Kobo on some questions asked by ShellShock: "We are not sure why you are sideloading your Kobo books."

(Original post found here)

[QUOTE=ShellShock;2505061]This the reply I had from Kobo support when I raised the problem with them in March.

We have not been able to test it in the Nickel font through the file you sent us as it does not come up in the list of font options with the documents you send us. However when we tested the file you sent us in the font call "Avenir," we were able to recreate the problem.

Unfortunately, we do not support texts outside of what the Kobo Glo comes with. To ensure sideloaded content is viewed without problems, you need to view it with the "Document Default" test.

When you either create your own documents or sideload documents from other sources and the Document default is not selected, we cannot guarantee that the font will behave properly or that you would see the text as it should appear.

We understand that with previous version this might have worked, however, the software has been re-written for optimal usage.

We are not sure why you are sideloading your Kobo books. However, if you can provide us with a concrete example from a Kobo-purchased book that we can test, we will able to let our development team know of the discrepancy with the italic font.

The eBook would have to be sent to us with a specific example on a page where the problem is appearing so that we can test accordingly.

We apologize for the inconvenience. We are aware that this is not the response you would want to receive. We will try our best to provide you with a solution.

There are many issues with kepubs that - for me - outweigh the enhancements of the industry standard.
This answer also shows that Kobo personnel actually do not use Kobo devices as many issues with these devices are not solved (timely).

Some issues:
• unnecessary margins between sentences. Adding a padding feature (padding left-right and padding top-bottom) to the font settings may fix this. Default padding should be zero.
• the necessary margins (scene breaks) are not there (or not recognizable as such)
• centered text is not respected
• font issues
• “double” page margins (epub page margins + margins of the kobo wrapper)
• … (yes, there are more)

See attachments for a side-by-side comparison.

Unnecessary margins between sentences may be solved by adding a padding feature (padding left-right and padding top-bottom) to the font settings. Default padding should be zero.

Proprietary format
If Kobo wants to use it's own proprietary format (kepub) for Digital rights management or other reasons instead of an industry standard (epub) it should
1. be an enhancement or improvement of the industry standard (epub). If not, it's not executed well and there is no need for a proprietary format.
2. respect other used standards/conventions. E.g. fonts issues as italic = bold (unexpected behaviour). Kobo should follow these font standards instead of inventing their own.
3. If any part, feature or element is sub par the industry standard (of behaves differently than expected) it should be fixed. If it can not then there is no need for this proprietary format.

IMHO, a kepub should

1. render the original layout as intended by the publisher. A book is not just some text, a well thought layout makes part of it and improves readability and user experience. And this is not different for a digital or a physical (paper) edition.
2. add the flexability to enable the unique Kobo features (font and page margin settings) and leaving everything else unaltered

[tshering]

If you set Justification to OFF in the font menu, the device honors the alignment settings of the kepub, at least for text (I never tried with pictures). Or has this changed with 2.5.1?

Maybe it would be helpful if you use a book for demonstration that you can upload..

[DNSB]

Originally Posted by tshering

If you set Justification to OFF in the font menu, the device honors the alignment settings of the kepub, at least for text (I never tried with pictures). Or has this changed with 2.5.1?

Maybe it would be helpful if you use a book for demonstration that you can upload..

Hmmm... not to mention that epubs use the Adobe Reader Mobile code to render while kepub use Kobo's rendering engine. Given that I've had enough fun over time modifying epubs for oddities in the ARM renderer and the even more fun having web pages handle the various rendering engines used by web browsers, I am not surprised by differences between how epub and kepub files are displayed.

Regards,
David

[ShellShock]

Kobo have made rod for their own back by creating their own epub format; it means they have got to support two different rendering engines, and it confuses the consumer. kepub should be killed off.

[Anak]

Originally Posted by tshering

If you set Justification to OFF in the font menu, the device honors the alignment settings of the kepub, at least for text (I never tried with pictures). Or has this changed with 2.5.1?

Maybe it would be helpful if you use a book for demonstration that you can upload..

All settings are default for both kepub and epub (no manual changes have been made). The pictures are taken from an original kepub and epub downloaded from Kobo.
The original text alignment is justification. Justification is OFF.
As far as I know centered text never worked properly in kepubs. It is not an issue that suddenly popped up in 2.5.x.

In user generated kepubs (renaming epub to kepub.epub) you can fix this bug by adding two text-alignment settings to "reset" or "force" text-alignment.

body {
margin:0;
text-align:right; /* force change or reset of text-alignment*/
font-family:serif;
…
text-align:justify; /* the preferred default text-alignment */
}

[DNSB]

Originally Posted by ShellShock

Kobo have made rod for their own back by creating their own epub format; it means they have got to support two different rendering engines, and it confuses the consumer. kepub should be killed off.

You really want Kobo to wait for Adobe to produce a rendering engine that will handle enough of EPUB3 to display non-European languages correctly? Given that Adobe has withdrawn their roadmap, it's gonna be a long wait.

You want Kobo to supply a rendering engine that will support Adobe ADEPT DRM? Again, it's gonna be a long wait.

As for the average consumer being confused? I seriously doubt the average consumer knows or cares that there are two different rendering engines much less is confused by them. Most of the people I know who have Kobo ereaders simply go to a website, select a book and download/sync them to their ereader. Ditto for the Sony, Kindle, Android tablet, etc. users.

Regards,
David

[Ripplinger]

I've never bought a kepub, and it looks like I never will. My main objection was that kepubs always show the title at the top, which is nothing but a waste of space. But after reading this thread, I have to agree that Kobo should just kill the kepub format and stick to epub.

[roger64]

Kobo, Kobo...

With EPUB, there is an obvious, long lasting problem with side-loaded fonts (italic to bold) it's also very tricky to use embedded fonts... Also I noticed -many times - a big bug regarding the display of long paragraphs..

But, I just learnt today that I can transform my EPUB as a kepub.epub. I tried it and for the first book:

The fonts problems (the main ones as far as I can see) seem to be solved. But... there are superscript defects, problems with centered and right-aligned text. Also I don't like the title display up and down... This after just five minutes...

For both EPUB and KEPUB, I deeply dislike the slider to go from one page to another. It's vastly innaccurate. I remember on the old PRS-505, you just typed the page number. Precise, simple. Un-Kobo probably.

These are not glitches, but glaring reading defects. I lost confidence.

[Sharkus]

Originally Posted by DNSB

You really want Kobo to wait for Adobe to produce a rendering engine that will handle enough of EPUB3 to display non-European languages correctly? Given that Adobe has withdrawn their roadmap, it's gonna be a long wait.

You want Kobo to supply a rendering engine that will support Adobe ADEPT DRM? Again, it's gonna be a long wait.

As for the average consumer being confused? I seriously doubt the average consumer knows or cares that there are two different rendering engines much less is confused by them. Most of the people I know who have Kobo ereaders simply go to a website, select a book and download/sync them to their ereader. Ditto for the Sony, Kindle, Android tablet, etc. users.

Regards,
David

I agree that most people don't know there are two different rendering engines (if we are getting picky, iOS actually has four; Adobe - using RMSDK, ePub reflowable, fixed layout epub, and, comic renderer), nor would they care, they just want to open and read a book.

iOS is interesting as due to the lack of an in-app store, people do click on the blue download buttons, which get the Adobe version of the files, and so do query why they need an Adobe ID, which for the most part they do not, unless it's a PDF file, as we don't download those in-app.
In addition, if you open a book in Adobe Renderer (only possible if you use the adobe version of the file), on iOS you can, quite literally, see the difference.

I'm not sure of all the changes we make in .kepub files. I know it's using our own encryption (where the book isn't free, or has to be DRM free, for example; books from Tor), and I know we do put in a specific css file that allows us to do certain things, the "Kobo Styling" option. This can be turned off and the book may render better, or possibly worse, some of the tweaks we put in are to make the files render better than they would otherwise.

I also agree that creating our own engine that supports ADEPT DRM would be a large task, and I'd say part of the reason we use Adobe's offering is that it is a lot less development effort than the former. However, implementing the Adobe SDK wasn't a five minute task, and you do need to pass the Adobe Certification process.

[pidgeon92]

I don't want to fiddle with my ebooks, I just want to read. Should I be using the KindleTouchExtended plugin to convert ePubs to load onto the Aura, or should I just leave them be?

[Anak]

Kobo should only use "industry standard" rendering engines that displays all epubs regardless the vendor (Kobo, B&N or any other shop) who sold the epub.
For epub 2 that is (like it or not) Abobes RMSDK and used by almost all dedicated devices (Sony, Bookeen etc.)
For epub 3: I don't know. Readium?
If Kobo wants to use a proprietary format it should be better than the "standard" and solve (some of) its limitations.

[tshering]

Originally Posted by Anak

The original text alignment is justification. Justification is OFF.

If I select Justification OFF, the OFF button has a very dark color. Therefore I thought yours is not set to off. However, on my Touch, one of the three justification buttons is always dark. Maybe this is connected with settings in the Kobo eReader.conf.

Originally Posted by Anak

As far as I know centered text never worked properly in kepubs. It is not an issue that suddenly popped up in 2.5.x.

In user generated kepubs (renaming epub to kepub.epub) you can fix this bug by adding two text-alignment settings to "reset" or "force" text-alignment.

body {
margin:0;
text-align:right; /* force change or reset of text-alignment*/
font-family:serif;
…
text-align:justify; /* the preferred default text-alignment */
}

I don't see this bug (and never saw it). To be sure, I just removed the ccs file of a kepub.epub, set one paragraphe to center by inline code(<p style="text-align: center">center test</p>), and it works. Am I doing something wrong?

[DNSB]

Originally Posted by Anak

Kobo should only use "industry standard" rendering engines that displays all epubs regardless the vendor (Kobo, B&N or any other shop) who sold the epub.
For epub 2 that is (like it or not) Abobes RMSDK and used by almost all dedicated devices (Sony, Bookeen etc.)
For epub 3: I don't know. Readium?
If Kobo wants to use a proprietary format it should be better than the "standard" and solve (some of) its limitations.

If you want epubs, that's your choice. Select the download Adobe epub or Adobe DRM epub option if you're buying from Kobo. If you're buying from B&N, good luck since you may have fun getting their DRM to work with a Kobo. If you want to download Adobe ADEPT DRM files from your local library? You will read those with the ARM renderer on a Kobo.

If you want a ebook that is capable of any text direction other than left to right, top to bottom Western European text, you have to look at other choices than the Adobe RMSDK. Readium may have a product in the future, for now what they have is an add-on for the Chrome browser, an add-on that has in my limited experience playing with it, has quite a few issues with rendering -- among other items, the two Japanese language epub3 files I tried didn't work. Looking at SDK page, they are moving along but still have quite a ways to go. Perhaps, Kobo should have stayed out of the Japanese market for the next couple of years?

It would also appear that ACCESS, who supply the NetFront renderer used by Kobo for kepub files, is now a member of the Readium group. The various blurbs for NetFront BookReader are filled with comments about supporting EPUB3 so that makes sense.

Regards,
David

[Anak]

Maybe its working with some kepubs and I don't have any idea why it (sometimes) breaks.
I usually read sideloaded epubs (the images in the first post show why).
But this center align issue is not an isolated case. I have many bought kepubs (I said all, that might not be completely true; but I'm not gonna test it on every kepub I own) that have this issue.
Manually flipping the text alignment settings in the font menu sometimes fixes this (basically the same procedure as hardcoding the css as I mentioned in a previous post).
But this doesn't work with this kepub (and some others aswell ).
Why? I do not know.

[RareBird]

I almost exclusively use kepubs but do occasionally use epubs from the library and although I notice the differences I generally don't care. I have had a few cases where the kepub formatting made the book unreadable (The Sisters Brothers was seriously buggered) but overall I can read either format happily. I like being able to sync my reading progress between my devices and that's the main reason I use kepub. I'm sure I'm the minority but just thought I'd add my two cents.