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Old 08-06-2018, 10:08 AM   #16
pwalker8
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If the allegations are in fact true maybe Amazon is going for the nostalgia angle? Just like shopping in a bookstore when the Big Publishers were in control and payola was the accepted business model. I don't visit many book stores these days but looking in a local one the other day and seeing what books are in the prime spots I suspect that this practice is still well and truly alive in print books.

Amazon seems to do very well in recommendations for some and not so well for others. I fall into the latter category though I do occasionally see a recommendation that interests me. As as has already been posted, Book store sites (or for that matter physical premises) are probably not the most independant source of recommendations. You can take them or leave them.
Try googling Amazon recommendation ads.

My point isn't that others do it or that Amazon doesn't have a right to do it, my point is that they took something that I found useful and made it not useful to me.

I certainly don't disagree that book store sites aren't necessarily the best source of independent recommendations. You will note that one of my points is that Amazon use to provide a mechanism for independent sites to monetize providing independent recommendations. That's pretty much the point of the final paragraph.
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Old 08-06-2018, 10:15 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by shalym View Post
Yeah...I don't see a tab labelled "Discover" on the Android app, either. I can't check the iPad right now, because my husband took it to work, but I will be interested to see if it shows different recommendations from the ones that I posted above, from the website.

Shari
The recommended for you on the website and recommended for you on the discover tab seem to be a totally different set of books. None are the same for me.
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Old 08-06-2018, 10:17 AM   #18
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I suspect the volume of Kindle Universe titles in a customer's recommendations has more to due with a user's browsing habits than it does with any nefarious scheme on Amazon's part to secretly* promote KU titles at the expense of books not in the program.

Pushing KU titles would make sense for Amazon to do. But so far there just doesn't seem to be proof that it is happening.

*Amazon does have their Sponsored Products section, but from my experience, those are clearly labelled as such.
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Old 08-06-2018, 10:49 AM   #19
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You didn't use the word liar, but that doesn't change the fact that you claimed that what I said was untrue.
Sure. I can agree with that. Because that's totally different than calling someone a liar. "Calling someone a liar" is actually predicated on the notion that the word "liar" is in fact spoken or typed. Suggesting someone has misrepresented a fact is not the same thing at all.

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I said "Oddly enough, every single book recommended to me by the Kindle app is in Kindle Unlimited or Prime(yea, that was sarcasm)." You claimed that was not a fact, i.e. was untrue.
Show me.

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Yes, you are very confused because there is such a tab on the kindle app for the ipad. Given that iBooks and Marvin are apps that only exist on apple devices I'm at a loss why you would think I was talking about the kindle fire.
Nope. Not confused. Not even a little bit. I didn't think you were talking about the Kindle Fire, I merely assumed (perhaps mistakenly) that you were clever enough to realize that Amazon does not use different recommendation algorithms for different platforms. Their algorithms target users

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Old 08-06-2018, 02:22 PM   #20
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Sure. I can agree with that. Because that's totally different than calling someone a liar. "Calling someone a liar" is actually predicated on the notion that the word "liar" is in fact spoken or typed. Suggesting someone has misrepresented a fact is not the same thing at all.


Show me.


Nope. Not confused. Not even a little bit. I didn't think you were talking about the Kindle Fire, I merely assumed (perhaps mistakenly) that you were clever enough to realize that Amazon does not use different recommendation algorithms for different platforms. Their algorithms target users
Really, you are going to play the "well, I didn't actually use the word liar defense"?

As I pointed out earlier, the web page gave a totally different set of recommendations than the discover tab gave. So basically, you are saying "I don't have an iPad, I have no way in the world of knowing if what you say is correct or not, but I'll call you a liar because it doesn't fit my preconceived notation of what Amazon does and doesn't do. " Yea. I guess I've wasted enough time with you.
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Old 08-06-2018, 02:27 PM   #21
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pwalker8, here is what is going on in your Kindle app for iOS and how to improve your discoverability. Amazon can’t have a true store in the iOS app because then they would have to share sales money with Apple. They have a workaround in developing the Discover tab. You are correct in stating that all of the recommendations are populated with Kindle Unlimited or Kindle Prime options. It is not similar to what you would find on the Amazon website. However it allows people who subscribe to those services to have an option to browse and download books directly to their device. It gets around being classified as a “store.”

There are a few ways to work-around the way the discover tab is setup for improved discoverability.

1) Type the name of any book that you like into the search bar and it will bring up a tab related to that book. Then you will be able to see other related books that customers buy and it will not be only KU or Prime options.

2) Forget about the Kindle app. Amazon recommends that you setup an icon on your iOS device home screen that is a link to a website rather than an actual app. Basically it means to save the mobile version of the Kindle website to your iOS device home screen. Using this method you see recommendations based on the full Kindle catalog and not just Unlimited and Prime. And you can also buy them which you can’t do within the Kindle app.

3) Forget about the Kindle app. Just use the Safari app and go to the Amazon website for recommendations, browsing and buying.
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Old 08-06-2018, 02:27 PM   #22
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Really, you are going to play the "well, I didn't actually use the word liar defense"?
Well... yes. Considering that it's actually true and all. Sure.

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So basically, you are saying "I don't have an iPad, I have no way in the world of knowing if what you say is correct or not, but I'll call you a liar because it doesn't fit my preconceived notation of what Amazon does and doesn't do."
No. I said what I meant. There was no translation/or paraphrasing required; "basically" or otherwise. Thanks for playing though.

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Old 08-06-2018, 02:42 PM   #23
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Personally, I mostly ignore what Amazon shovel my way. Just because I am slowly replacing some old favourite regency romances from my younger days and like urban fantasy doesn't mean I want to read modern formula romance (regency or paranormal or otherwise), thank you very much. (I loathe the new recommendations interface on the web site and really wish there was a setting that allowed me to totally ignore an author.)

The only reason I keep an eye on recommendations is that occasionally there's something that catches my eye or there's a price reduction on an author I like, but I do it via my browser on the laptop or desktop not the iOS app. (And yes, I do have an ereaderIQ account, but some of my authors are only slowly being converted to ebook and many haven't had one ebook version at all - the recent Endeavour kerfuffle hasn't helped there.)
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Old 08-06-2018, 08:45 PM   #24
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I never looked at the Discover tab before. The selection there turns out to be pretty useless to me. All KU and Prime reading, no doubt, as Bookworm Girl said, designed to get around Apple's rules on stores within apps. Not very customized to my purchase history.

On the other hand, their recommendations on the web site are pretty good. Lots of titles by the same authors I've purchased recently and others in the same general genre, some in KU, many not.
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Old 08-06-2018, 10:11 PM   #25
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I never looked at the Discover tab before. The selection there turns out to be pretty useless to me. All KU and Prime reading, no doubt, as Bookworm Girl said, designed to get around Apple's rules on stores within apps. Not very customized to my purchase history.

On the other hand, their recommendations on the web site are pretty good. Lots of titles by the same authors I've purchased recently and others in the same general genre, some in KU, many not.
Yes. I checked out the Discover tab, and it is a useless pile of steaming crap. Good thing that it seems to be only on Apple products.

I also agree that the recommendations on the website are good...I actually bought one of the books from those recommendations today!

Shari
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Old 08-06-2018, 10:55 PM   #26
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pwalker8, here is what is going on in your Kindle app for iOS and how to improve your discoverability. Amazon can’t have a true store in the iOS app because then they would have to share sales money with Apple. They have a workaround in developing the Discover tab. You are correct in stating that all of the recommendations are populated with Kindle Unlimited or Kindle Prime options. It is not similar to what you would find on the Amazon website. However it allows people who subscribe to those services to have an option to browse and download books directly to their device. It gets around being classified as a “store.”

There are a few ways to work-around the way the discover tab is setup for improved discoverability.

1) Type the name of any book that you like into the search bar and it will bring up a tab related to that book. Then you will be able to see other related books that customers buy and it will not be only KU or Prime options.

2) Forget about the Kindle app. Amazon recommends that you setup an icon on your iOS device home screen that is a link to a website rather than an actual app. Basically it means to save the mobile version of the Kindle website to your iOS device home screen. Using this method you see recommendations based on the full Kindle catalog and not just Unlimited and Prime. And you can also buy them which you can’t do within the Kindle app.

3) Forget about the Kindle app. Just use the Safari app and go to the Amazon website for recommendations, browsing and buying.

Yes, I do understand that, though the genesis of the original post was a compare and contrast of how the Kindle app and books app handle discoverability as triggered by noticing the discover tab in the kindle app on the iPad.

I really see nothing that prevents Amazon from using their normal recommendations since when I select one of the books, it show the book and a button that lets me add the book to a list for later purchase. Perhaps there is something else that KU subscribers see on that page, but as far as I can tell, there is nothing that requires only KU books.
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Old 08-07-2018, 10:58 AM   #27
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Amazon can’t have a true store in the iOS app because then they would have to share sales money with Apple.
For agency licensed books, "share" is an interesting description of paying 100% to Apple.
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Old 08-09-2018, 07:55 PM   #28
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Sure. I can agree with that. Because that's totally different than calling someone a liar. "Calling someone a liar" is actually predicated on the notion that the word "liar" is in fact spoken or typed. Suggesting someone has misrepresented a fact is not the same thing at all.
And usually it's an active statement rather than a passive one. A fact can be untrue or inaccurate without the person who talks of it being a liar themselves. They could be misinformed or someone else could have misrepresented the facts to them either on purpose or accidentally.

I think an example would be if I told you that I had $8 million in the bank. Now if I know that I don't really have 8 million dollars in the bank then I will have lied, but if I have been led to believe that $8 million is coming to me as a result of some business deal (say in real estate) and I haven't checked my bank balance I may be wrong about what I have in the bank but I myself haven't lied about it. Someone else may have lied to me, but I myself haven't done so.
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Old 08-10-2018, 01:33 PM   #29
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I really see nothing that prevents Amazon from using their normal recommendations since when I select one of the books, it show the book and a button that lets me add the book to a list for later purchase. Perhaps there is something else that KU subscribers see on that page, but as far as I can tell, there is nothing that requires only KU books.
I’m a KU subscriber, and all I see are KU books (except for Books From Your Goodreads Friends). Everything else is accessible via a link.

At the least, it is a way of promoting KU to non subscribers and giving KU subscribers more direct access to content which they can download without having to switch out to Safari or whatever to buy something. Amazon has arrived at this presentation over a period of some years following banning of in-app book purchases, sample-only browsing, and now ability to borrow KU content, and while we may second-guess it, they have analytics and we do not.

I pretty much ignore Discover. I have more than enough to read, including KU content, and when I want to browse for books, I want to know the price.
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Old 08-10-2018, 04:41 PM   #30
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I used to use the Amazon.com website's "Recommendations for You" to discover new and upcoming eBook releases, but Amazon recently severely neutered it to make it near useless.

Now I am not sure where to discover interesting new and upcoming eBook releases.
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