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Old 03-15-2019, 10:14 AM   #16
Notjohn
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Please don't do this! I get a bellyful of videos in my email. I don't want to see them in my books!
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Old 03-15-2019, 12:43 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hitch View Post
Well, no--you CAN, actually, embed the entire video into an ePUB, rather than calling it from an external link, and use the device's built-in player. Most ebooks do actually link to videos stored on HTML webpages, with players, as you note--but it is entirely possible to embed the entire video into the ePUB. We've done it, more than once. I don't recommend it, for a zillion reasons. But it's certainly doable. This article on our site shows a book we made dog's years ago (2013, if memory serves): http://www.booknook.biz/ebook-sizes-...ipad-book-size and that's embedded video right there.

It's not very kind to the poor bastards that have to download the eBook, either, given how much size video adds to eBooks. As well.

Hitch
I was not referring to a link to content outside the epub. What I was trying to make clear is that storing videos and/or images as part of the html (inline?) is not normal. The standard procedure is to have a link in the html to an image, audio or video stored as part of the epub outside the html code. In the case of the epub3 I was looking at, there are 3 directories for images, audio and video internal to the epub structure just to make that separation clear.

I suspect that to many, I'm splitting hairs as to exactly what embedding means as when patrickyoung referred to "Is there any way to embed them into a page?". To me, adding a link to an image, audio or video file is not embedding but adding a base64 encoded animated gif is embedding as it becomes part of the html code.

OTOH, others will disagree with me. See the HTLM5 <embed> which adds a link to external content.
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Old 03-15-2019, 12:54 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RbnJrg View Post
I don't know what model you have, but Jackie told us that her Kobo passed very well the epub3 tests; watch the following posts:

https://www.mobileread.com/forums/sh...96&postcount=6

https://www.mobileread.com/forums/sh...18&postcount=7
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Old 03-15-2019, 01:06 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jackie_w View Post
Since I've been quoted here I think it's only fair that I clarify. Neither of the two epub3s I tested on the Kobo eink (epub30-test-0101 from your first link plus the one you sent via PM) actually contained any audio/video content.

@DNSB is also a Kobo power user so I'd have no reason to doubt anything he's said above.
Ok Jackie, I missunderstood you. I thought you had tested epub30-test-0100 that contains MathML, inline frames, videos, sounds, and many others epub3 features.
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Old 03-15-2019, 02:11 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DNSB View Post
I was not referring to a link to content outside the epub. What I was trying to make clear is that storing videos and/or images as part of the html (inline?) is not normal. The standard procedure is to have a link in the html to an image, audio or video stored as part of the epub outside the html code. In the case of the epub3 I was looking at, there are 3 directories for images, audio and video internal to the epub structure just to make that separation clear.

I suspect that to many, I'm splitting hairs as to exactly what embedding means as when patrickyoung referred to "Is there any way to embed them into a page?". To me, adding a link to an image, audio or video file is not embedding but adding a base64 encoded animated gif is embedding as it becomes part of the html code.

OTOH, others will disagree with me. See the HTLM5 <embed> which adds a link to external content.
??? In your post, you said:

Quote:
Not absolutely certain what you mean by embedding the video in a page. Video files in an epub document are stored external to the html page and are referred to by links. ...
Which is what I was replying to. The OP is not talking about calling a video via links; he's talking about embedding the file, itself, in the HTML files.

Splitting hairs is conflating the terms. Calling links to video hosted elsewhere is not embedding. Embedding the entire file in an ePUB is embedding. That seems to be what you're saying now, but it's absolutely not clear that that's what you were saying earlier. The way you phrased it, in the segment I quoted, made it sound as though he could ONLY link to videos hosted elsewhere, so I simply clarified.

I agree that it's not normal. It's a massive waste of the reader's space (both the person and the device) and it makes no damn sense to do it that way. He started out talking about typical, linked videos, but now we have this whole other discussion, (due to some discussion about how Youtube is going to do horrible things to their videos, which is whatever) of embedding the damned things. When obviously, the SIMPLEST solution is to put the videos and a player on their own website, if they really think that YT is going to mess with their videos. (Which, of course, is entirely against YT's own best interests, mind you. Unless, of course, we're discussing paedophilia or other weirdness here.)

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Old 03-15-2019, 02:32 PM   #21
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And even if the video plays on an eInk Reader, most won't have sound so if the video has sound, that won't be heard.
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Old 03-16-2019, 03:34 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hitch View Post
Which is what I was replying to. The OP is not talking about calling a video via links; he's talking about embedding the file, itself, in the HTML files.

Splitting hairs is conflating the terms. Calling links to video hosted elsewhere is not embedding. Embedding the entire file in an ePUB is embedding. That seems to be what you're saying now, but it's absolutely not clear that that's what you were saying earlier. The way you phrased it, in the segment I quoted, made it sound as though he could ONLY link to videos hosted elsewhere, so I simply clarified.
To me, embedding in a html file means that the whatever is made part of the html code such as the inline images I mentioned. By extension, any content that is referred to by a link is not "embedded in the html code". It may be embedded in the package file but that's a whole other argument. I seem to remember responding to a question about "Is there any way to embed them into a page" which is not the same--to me--as is there a way to embed them in the epub package file. I do seem to remember responding "You can embed some video formats (MP4 and/or WebM) in an epub3 document."

Whether I am linking to an file hosted on YouTube or linking to a file inside the epub package doesn't really matter to me. Links is links.

I get the galloping heebies when you refer to "embedding the file, itself, in the HTML files" where I would say "embedding the file in the EPUB document or EPUB package file". By definition, an epub document/container/package file must contain more than only HTML files.

Pedantry is us.

Last edited by DNSB; 03-16-2019 at 03:47 AM.
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Old 03-16-2019, 12:21 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DNSB View Post
To me, embedding in a html file means that the whatever is made part of the html code such as the inline images I mentioned. By extension, any content that is referred to by a link is not "embedded in the html code". It may be embedded in the package file but that's a whole other argument. I seem to remember responding to a question about "Is there any way to embed them into a page" which is not the same--to me--as is there a way to embed them in the epub package file. I do seem to remember responding "You can embed some video formats (MP4 and/or WebM) in an epub3 document."

Whether I am linking to an file hosted on YouTube or linking to a file inside the epub package doesn't really matter to me. Links is links.

I get the galloping heebies when you refer to "embedding the file, itself, in the HTML files" where I would say "embedding the file in the EPUB document or EPUB package file". By definition, an epub document/container/package file must contain more than only HTML files.

Pedantry is us.
There are links and then there are links. In particular an eBook is not self contained if the links leave the device so links need to be to things inside the ePub to be useful in my opinion.

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Old 03-16-2019, 01:09 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DNSB View Post
To me, embedding in a html file means that the whatever is made part of the html code such as the inline images I mentioned. By extension, any content that is referred to by a link is not "embedded in the html code". It may be embedded in the package file but that's a whole other argument. I seem to remember responding to a question about "Is there any way to embed them into a page" which is not the same--to me--as is there a way to embed them in the epub package file. I do seem to remember responding "You can embed some video formats (MP4 and/or WebM) in an epub3 document."

Whether I am linking to an file hosted on YouTube or linking to a file inside the epub package doesn't really matter to me. Links is links.

I get the galloping heebies when you refer to "embedding the file, itself, in the HTML files" where I would say "embedding the file in the EPUB document or EPUB package file". By definition, an epub document/container/package file must contain more than only HTML files.

Pedantry is us.
Seriously?

The OP is obviously not making that distinction. He is simply talking about embedding the videos IN THE PACKAGE, versus hosted videos "elsewhere." Nobody here--NOBODY--was talking about putting an mp4 file in the actual HTML code. I mean, sure, I can be as pedantic as the next guy, but you're making a distinction about something that couldn't even EXIST, as an MP4 file or other video could NOT be "embedded" in the HTML itself.

Those are "heebie jeebies" about an event that literally could never occur. Have them if you will, but that's like an argument about HOW you'd fall off the edge of the earth if it were flat.

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Old 03-16-2019, 08:35 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by Hitch View Post
Seriously?

The OP is obviously not making that distinction. He is simply talking about embedding the videos IN THE PACKAGE, versus hosted videos "elsewhere." Nobody here--NOBODY--was talking about putting an mp4 file in the actual HTML code. I mean, sure, I can be as pedantic as the next guy, but you're making a distinction about something that couldn't even EXIST, as an MP4 file or other video could NOT be "embedded" in the HTML itself.

Those are "heebie jeebies" about an event that literally could never occur. Have them if you will, but that's like an argument about HOW you'd fall off the edge of the earth if it were flat.

Hitch
Want to make a small side bet on embedding videos directly in a web page? One application that was used on the corporate side for training allowed embedding a video into the html code. The player was external to the renderer but the video itself was part of the html code. For it's time, it worked well if you liked cartoons and was the first time I'd seen Base85 encoding used outside of Adobe's products.

Yes, I understand that for most people, making a file available locally is referred to as embedding. For me, there is a difference between embedding a video in a package of files and making a video available to a web page as a link to a locally stored file. Perhaps as useful as ordering the tide not to come in given that any Google search will find "embedding videos" used for everything up to and including linking to a video on YouTube and other video sites.

The heebies are more from the misuse of words. Though worrying about the purity of the English language is more than a bit silly given the history of the English language. As James D. Nicoll phrased it: "The problem with defending the purity of the English language is that English is about as pure as a cribhouse whore. We don’t just borrow words; on occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat them unconscious and rifle their pockets for new vocabulary."

"You gotta just laugh at yourself and let it go and not take things too seriously because life is too short."
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Old 03-18-2019, 09:38 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DNSB View Post
Want to make a small side bet on embedding videos directly in a web page? One application that was used on the corporate side for training allowed embedding a video into the html code. The player was external to the renderer but the video itself was part of the html code. For it's time, it worked well if you liked cartoons and was the first time I'd seen Base85 encoding used outside of Adobe's products.

Yes, I understand that for most people, making a file available locally is referred to as embedding. For me, there is a difference between embedding a video in a package of files and making a video available to a web page as a link to a locally stored file. Perhaps as useful as ordering the tide not to come in given that any Google search will find "embedding videos" used for everything up to and including linking to a video on YouTube and other video sites.

The heebies are more from the misuse of words. Though worrying about the purity of the English language is more than a bit silly given the history of the English language. As James D. Nicoll phrased it: "The problem with defending the purity of the English language is that English is about as pure as a cribhouse whore. We don’t just borrow words; on occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat them unconscious and rifle their pockets for new vocabulary."

"You gotta just laugh at yourself and let it go and not take things too seriously because life is too short."
And I'm certain that this discourse has been absolutely invaluable to enhancing the OP's understanding of the issues at hand.

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Old 03-18-2019, 11:56 PM   #27
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And I'm certain that this discourse has been absolutely invaluable to enhancing the OP's understanding of the issues at hand.

Hitch
Well, of course, it's been invaluable. A bad example is as good as a good example--providing you know which is which.
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