Register Guidelines E-Books Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   MobileRead Forums > E-Book General > News

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 01-28-2021, 01:45 PM   #46
MickiTee
Guru
MickiTee ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.MickiTee ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.MickiTee ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.MickiTee ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.MickiTee ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.MickiTee ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.MickiTee ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.MickiTee ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.MickiTee ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.MickiTee ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.MickiTee ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
MickiTee's Avatar
 
Posts: 755
Karma: 1731876
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: London, UK
Device: Sony PRS-505, Pocketbook TL3, TL4


I know this is off topic, but I feel I must correct the misconceptions some people have about how and who pays and/or keeps VAT revenues in the UK. I do the VAT returns for the small company I work for so know what the procedures are.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pajamaman View Post
I don't know which I find more shocking, publishers pocketing the value of VAT (i.e. stealing from ebook consumers), or the total lack of mention of it in the mainstream news.
When VAT in the UK is levied on products the seller of the goods collects the VAT monies on behalf of HMRC (i.e. the tax man). They do NOT keep it for themselves. Companies with a turnover of more than £85,000 per annum are required to register for VAT with HMRC. These companies then have to make a VAT return either on a monthly or quarterly basis.

When doing this companies have to declare the amount of their sales and the VAT charged against these sales. A VAT registered company can then offset the VAT they paid for their purchases, in the same period, against the amount collected on their sales. They then pay HMRC the difference between the two VAT amounts i.e VAT on sales less VAT on purchases. Obviously HMRC will pay a company if VAT on purchases is greater than that on sales.

Obviously Amazon would not be able to reduce their payments to the publishers for goods already received just as the publishers would have had to pay HMRC the VAT on sales made before the VAT rate was reduced. The removal of VAT on ebook purchases from the publishers really only applied for purchases after the date the reduction in the VAT rate went live.
MickiTee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2021, 02:18 PM   #47
Pajamaman
Wizard
Pajamaman ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Pajamaman ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Pajamaman ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Pajamaman ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Pajamaman ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Pajamaman ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Pajamaman ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Pajamaman ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Pajamaman ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Pajamaman ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Pajamaman ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Pajamaman's Avatar
 
Posts: 2,360
Karma: 7760437
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Canada
Device: Onyx Nova
@MickiTee

Thank you for the information. I have read it carefully. However, I don't see how this bears on the fact that ebook prices have stayed the same long after the VAT on ebooks was scrapped.

I can see this might be the case if Amazon pre-bought a batch of ebooks. But presumably we would be seeing a 20% drop in a large number of ebook prices by now.

Last edited by Pajamaman; 01-28-2021 at 02:42 PM.
Pajamaman is offline   Reply With Quote
Advert
Old 01-29-2021, 07:12 AM   #48
pwalker8
Grand Sorcerer
pwalker8 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pwalker8 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pwalker8 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pwalker8 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pwalker8 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pwalker8 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pwalker8 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pwalker8 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pwalker8 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pwalker8 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pwalker8 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 7,168
Karma: 70314280
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA
Device: iPad Pro, iPad mini, Kobo Aura, Amazon paperwhite, Sony PRS-T2
Quote:
Originally Posted by DiapDealer View Post
And was in the minority in that opinion.
That is what dissident opinion means.
pwalker8 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2021, 08:28 AM   #49
Quoth
the rook, bossing Never.
Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Quoth's Avatar
 
Posts: 3,301
Karma: 23700000
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Ireland
Device: Both Kinds: epub based makes and Kindle
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pajamaman View Post
I can see this might be the case if Amazon pre-bought a batch of ebooks. But presumably we would be seeing a 20% drop in a large number of ebook prices by now.
AFAIK Amazon don't ever pre-buy ebooks. Not even for lending. OTOH, the listing is free. Compare Etsy, eBay or even Amazon's 3rd party product listing costs.
Quoth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2021, 08:37 AM   #50
JSWolf
Resident Curmudgeon
JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
JSWolf's Avatar
 
Posts: 63,397
Karma: 103125649
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Roslindale, Massachusetts
Device: Kobo Aura H2O, PRS-650, PRS-T1, nook STR, iPad 4, iPhone SE 2020, PW3
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pajamaman View Post
Thx. I recall reading the thread at the time. However, I was hoping to find some mainstream report on the news. Does anyone have anything?
Here you go. This is straight from the UK government.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/v...e-publications
JSWolf is offline   Reply With Quote
Advert
Old 01-29-2021, 08:40 AM   #51
JSWolf
Resident Curmudgeon
JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
JSWolf's Avatar
 
Posts: 63,397
Karma: 103125649
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Roslindale, Massachusetts
Device: Kobo Aura H2O, PRS-650, PRS-T1, nook STR, iPad 4, iPhone SE 2020, PW3
Quote:
Originally Posted by leebase View Post
The publishers are supposed to compete against the other publishers....not have one of their distributers destroying their business model.
So instead, the publishers destroyed the business models of some stores and put them out of business.
JSWolf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2021, 08:46 AM   #52
JSWolf
Resident Curmudgeon
JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
JSWolf's Avatar
 
Posts: 63,397
Karma: 103125649
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Roslindale, Massachusetts
Device: Kobo Aura H2O, PRS-650, PRS-T1, nook STR, iPad 4, iPhone SE 2020, PW3
Back before the collusion with Apple and the price fix six, overall, I bought more eBooks form Fictionwise and Books-On-Board then I did from Amazon.
JSWolf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2021, 08:51 AM   #53
JSWolf
Resident Curmudgeon
JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
JSWolf's Avatar
 
Posts: 63,397
Karma: 103125649
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Roslindale, Massachusetts
Device: Kobo Aura H2O, PRS-650, PRS-T1, nook STR, iPad 4, iPhone SE 2020, PW3
Quote:
Originally Posted by MickiTee View Post
Obviously Amazon would not be able to reduce their payments to the publishers for goods already received just as the publishers would have had to pay HMRC the VAT on sales made before the VAT rate was reduced. The removal of VAT on ebook purchases from the publishers really only applied for purchases after the date the reduction in the VAT rate went live.
So why aren't eBooks on Amazon purchased/released after the VAT reduction went live showing VAT reduced prices?
JSWolf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2021, 09:07 AM   #54
DiapDealer
Grand Sorcerer
DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
DiapDealer's Avatar
 
Posts: 24,176
Karma: 163507044
Join Date: Jan 2010
Device: Nexus 7, Kindle Fire HD
Quote:
Originally Posted by pwalker8 View Post
That is what dissident opinion means.
Ya think?
DiapDealer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2021, 10:04 AM   #55
Pajamaman
Wizard
Pajamaman ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Pajamaman ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Pajamaman ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Pajamaman ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Pajamaman ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Pajamaman ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Pajamaman ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Pajamaman ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Pajamaman ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Pajamaman ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Pajamaman ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Pajamaman's Avatar
 
Posts: 2,360
Karma: 7760437
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Canada
Device: Onyx Nova
Quote:
Originally Posted by JSWolf View Post
Here you go. This is straight from the UK government.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/v...e-publications
I was looking for a news story and discussion about it, not a government announcement. Also, and more importantly, I was looking for a mainstream discussion of the apparent fact that publishers have kept the 20% VAT saving and not passed it on to consumers.

It appears to be a clear case of cartels, abuse of the VAT saving, and to add to that, a conspiracy of silence among the mainstream press. I haven't surveyed price changes of UK e-books since the VAT removal, so I'm not sure it's really happening.

Perhaps someone more knowledgeable about UK ebook pricing could comment?
Pajamaman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2021, 11:13 AM   #56
maddz
Wizard
maddz ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.maddz ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.maddz ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.maddz ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.maddz ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.maddz ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.maddz ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.maddz ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.maddz ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.maddz ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.maddz ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 1,025
Karma: 24436562
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: UK
Device: Kobo Forma, Icarus, iPad Mini 2, Kobo Touch, Google Nexus 7
Quote:
Originally Posted by JSWolf View Post
So why aren't eBooks on Amazon purchased/released after the VAT reduction went live showing VAT reduced prices?
As I recall it, only ebooks published by Amazon showed the removal of VAT immediately provided they were not already on sale or otherwise discounted. I recall Amazon saying at the time they could only change price on 'their' titles; they could not unilaterally reduce the price on other publisher's works without permission from the publisher.

Following that, some publishers did reduce their prices in line with the zero VAT rate, but others did not. From memory, it tended to be small press publishers that did that. Whether mainstream publishers have since followed suit or not, I don't know; I mostly buy discounted genre fiction with a few exceptions so I don't pay much attention to long term price trends.
maddz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2021, 11:23 AM   #57
JSWolf
Resident Curmudgeon
JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
JSWolf's Avatar
 
Posts: 63,397
Karma: 103125649
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Roslindale, Massachusetts
Device: Kobo Aura H2O, PRS-650, PRS-T1, nook STR, iPad 4, iPhone SE 2020, PW3
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pajamaman View Post
I was looking for a news story and discussion about it, not a government announcement. Also, and more importantly, I was looking for a mainstream discussion of the apparent fact that publishers have kept the 20% VAT saving and not passed it on to consumers.

It appears to be a clear case of cartels, abuse of the VAT saving, and to add to that, a conspiracy of silence among the mainstream press. I haven't surveyed price changes of UK e-books since the VAT removal, so I'm not sure it's really happening.

Perhaps someone more knowledgeable about UK ebook pricing could comment?
If you go to eBooks.com and set it for the UK, you will find that some eBooks there do have the VAT savings. Not all, but some. I would have thought that there would have been more of an outcry. It's like hardly anybody noticed.
JSWolf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2021, 11:29 AM   #58
JSWolf
Resident Curmudgeon
JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
JSWolf's Avatar
 
Posts: 63,397
Karma: 103125649
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Roslindale, Massachusetts
Device: Kobo Aura H2O, PRS-650, PRS-T1, nook STR, iPad 4, iPhone SE 2020, PW3
What I don't get is why there is no VAT discount showing at Amazon but there is at eBooks.com. At eBooks.com the price is £3.32 and at Amazon UK the price is £3.99. So the greedy publishers are now maiking 18.33% more on eBooks then they were before the VAT removal.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B078MBTC46
https://www.ebooks.com/en-gb/book/95...james-swallow/

Last edited by JSWolf; 01-29-2021 at 11:31 AM.
JSWolf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2021, 01:36 PM   #59
paulsalter
Fanatic
paulsalter ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.paulsalter ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.paulsalter ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.paulsalter ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.paulsalter ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.paulsalter ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.paulsalter ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.paulsalter ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.paulsalter ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.paulsalter ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.paulsalter ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 579
Karma: 3243761
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: UK
Device: Kindle Fire HD8
Quote:
Originally Posted by JSWolf View Post
If you go to eBooks.com and set it for the UK, you will find that some eBooks there do have the VAT savings. Not all, but some. I would have thought that there would have been more of an outcry. It's like hardly anybody noticed.
Why would you expect an outcry or people to notice?

If someone sells a product for X pounds, that is the price you pay, i doubt many would actually look up to see what VAT rate (if any) is applied

If the book was £3.99 while VAT was included, and it's now still £3.99, nobody will question it (not in big numbers anyway), there has been no change in price as far as the customer is concerned
paulsalter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2021, 03:47 PM   #60
JSWolf
Resident Curmudgeon
JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
JSWolf's Avatar
 
Posts: 63,397
Karma: 103125649
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Roslindale, Massachusetts
Device: Kobo Aura H2O, PRS-650, PRS-T1, nook STR, iPad 4, iPhone SE 2020, PW3
Quote:
Originally Posted by paulsalter View Post
Why would you expect an outcry or people to notice?

If someone sells a product for X pounds, that is the price you pay, i doubt many would actually look up to see what VAT rate (if any) is applied

If the book was £3.99 while VAT was included, and it's now still £3.99, nobody will question it (not in big numbers anyway), there has been no change in price as far as the customer is concerned
As far as the customer is concerned, the prices are supposed to be LOWER now.
JSWolf is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
S&S hit with class action lawsuit on ebook royalties fjtorres News 19 05-23-2016 11:06 AM
Lawsuit claims Apple and publishers colluded on eBook pricing in fear of Amazon.com Joseph R News 1 08-10-2011 03:30 PM
Unutterably Silly Class Action Lawsuit against MR Taylor514ce Lounge 566 07-22-2009 03:40 AM
$5 million class action lawsuit against Amazon nathantw Amazon Kindle 3 07-17-2009 01:00 AM
Apple MacBook screens subject of class-action lawsuit -Could this be done to iRex? vranghel iRex 0 05-18-2007 03:48 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:41 PM.


MobileRead.com is a privately owned, operated and funded community.