Question about lang errors in Flight Crew check

[Gregg Bell]

I was making some minor changes to an epub and Flight Crew turned up all these lang errors (that I didn't notice before!). See screenshot. There are ten or so errors and they all refer to the same Spanish issues as in the screenshot.

The epub passes Doitsu's epub check and it passes the Int'l Digital Publishing Forum's EPUB validator.

I'm hoping the book is fine as it is but I wanted to ask about these lang issues just in case I had to do anything about them. (I'm hesitant to make any changes because I've looked at my Kindle and the spanish stuff looks fine in there (it's just italicized) and the book is selling and no one's complained about anything so I don't want to screw things up.)

Thanks.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by Gregg Bell

I was making some minor changes to an epub and Flight Crew turned up all these lang errors (that I didn't notice before!). See screenshot. There are ten or so errors and they all refer to the same Spanish issues as in the screenshot.

I have no idea where this code came from, but you should not be using anything like <i lang="es" xml:lang="es">. You should be using <i>.

[KevinH]

He is trying to identify the words in a foreign language used in a book predominately in English. From what I understand, using span tag instead of an italic would probably be better, but FlightCrew checks epub2 not epub2.1 so the language attribute lang= is not recognized by Flightcrew but is now legal! The attribute xml:lang= is a recognized attribute by FlightCrew. That is why most books tell you to use both attributes.

I would check this with Doitsu's epubcheck plugin. It is probably all okay. If it passes epubcheck, I would ignore it in FlightCrew as adding the lang= attribute came after Flightcrew was designed.

KevinH

[JSWolf]

Is FlightCrew ever going to be updated? If not, just stick with epubcheck that does get updated (IMHO).

[Gregg Bell]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

I have no idea where this code came from, but you should not be using anything like <i lang="es" xml:lang="es">. You should be using <i>.

Thanks Jon. Using the <i> would definitely simplify things. I didn't come up with the lang stuff. A friend who knows a ton suggested it. I just found an old email where he explained some of the benefits. The main thing was that it would identify the words as Spanish and give the spellchecker the ability to utilize a Spanish dictionary so there would not be those squiggly lines under the word identifying it as mispelled. And he said that it could come into play somehow with text-to-speech stuff.

[Gregg Bell]

Originally Posted by KevinH

He is trying to identify the words in a foreign language used in a book predominately in English. From what I understand, using span tag instead of an italic would probably be better, but FlightCrew checks epub2 not epub2.1 so the language attribute lang= is not recognized by Flightcrew but is now legal! The attribute xml:lang= is a recognized attribute by FlightCrew. That is why most books tell you to use both attributes.

I would check this with Doitsu's epubcheck plugin. It is probably all okay. If it passes epubcheck, I would ignore it in FlightCrew as adding the lang= attribute came after Flightcrew was designed.

KevinH

Thanks for the explanation, Kevin. My epub did pass Doitsu's epubcheck plugin. At least the second to last one. (I don't have the updated version yet. That will be another question.) A friend did the code and said the advantages were allowing a spell-checker to go to the Spanish dictionary to check the word, so there would be no squiggly red lines under the word identifying it as misspelled. And he said it could come into play with text to speech editors.

Since it looks okay in my Kindle I'm going to leave it.

[theducks]

Originally Posted by Gregg Bell

Thanks for the explanation, Kevin. My epub did pass Doitsu's epubcheck plugin. At least the second to last one. (I don't have the updated version yet. That will be another question.) A friend did the code and said the advantages were allowing a spell-checker to go to the Spanish dictionary to check the word, so there would be no squiggly red lines under the word identifying it as misspelled. And he said it could come into play with text to speech editors.

Since it looks okay in my Kindle I'm going to leave it.

I like your friends answer AFAIK the code is valid
As you noticed, many checkers are behind and many 'publishing' houses will give you grief over this valid code

[Doitsu]

Originally Posted by Gregg Bell

The epub passes Doitsu's epub check and it passes the Int'l Digital Publishing Forum's EPUB validator.

@Gregg Bell: Actually, they're both the same tool. All my plugin does is run an offline version of the IDPF validator embedded in the plugin.

Originally Posted by JSWolf

I have no idea where this code came from, but you should not be using anything like <i lang="es" xml:lang="es">. You should be using <i>.

@JSWolf: Actually, the IDPF recommends the very syntax that Gregg Bell used. You really might want to refrain from posting unfounded statements.

[Gregg Bell]

Originally Posted by theducks

I like your friends answer AFAIK the code is valid
As you noticed, many checkers are behind and many 'publishing' houses will give you grief over this valid code

Thanks ducks

[Gregg Bell]

Originally Posted by Doitsu

@Gregg Bell: Actually, they're both the same tool. All my plugin does is run an offline version of the IDPF validator embedded in the plugin.

Ha ha. So I've been double checking things! Thanks Doitsu.

[davidfor]

Originally Posted by Gregg Bell

Thanks for the explanation, Kevin. My epub did pass Doitsu's epubcheck plugin. At least the second to last one. (I don't have the updated version yet. That will be another question.) A friend did the code and said the advantages were allowing a spell-checker to go to the Spanish dictionary to check the word, so there would be no squiggly red lines under the word identifying it as misspelled. And he said it could come into play with text to speech editors.

Since it looks okay in my Kindle I'm going to leave it.

The other thing it should do is trigger the appropriate dictionary in the ereader. On the Kobo ereaders, selecting a word like this will show the meaning from the language dictionary or the translation dictionary

[Tex2002ans]

Originally Posted by Doitsu

Actually, the IDPF recommends the very syntax that Gregg Bell used. You really might want to refrain from posting unfounded statements.

Great find.

Originally Posted by davidfor

The other thing it should do is trigger the appropriate dictionary in the ereader. On the Kobo ereaders, selecting a word like this will show the meaning from the language dictionary or the translation dictionary

Have you actually tested similar code to this on a Kobo? Does it automatically select the Spanish dictionary or a Spanish -> English translation?

I would also be interested if any of the Android readers (or iBooks?) implement different voices for English/Spanish text-to-speech.

EPUB3 Note: I know EPUB3 also tried to introduce a lot of the CSS3 voice stuff (like specifying Male/Female)... but not too sure how prevalent this stuff is in actual reading systems:

https://idpf.github.io/a11y-guidelin...ts/speech.html

Also, some markup + lang/xml:lang code might also allow you to introduce text-to-speech with American English (Male/Female), British English (Male/Female), Spanish, [...]. I could see something like that being helpful in a play... or your typical book.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by Doitsu

@JSWolf: Actually, the IDPF recommends the very syntax that Gregg Bell used. You really might want to refrain from posting unfounded statements.

That's for ePub 3. Is this ePub 3 or ePub 2?

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

That's for ePub 3. Is this ePub 3 or ePub 2?

Doesn't matter. His code is valid either way. It's your "not liking it" that's irrelevant.

[davidfor]

Originally Posted by Tex2002ans

Great find.
Have you actually tested similar code to this on a Kobo? Does it automatically select the Spanish dictionary or a Spanish -> English translation?

Looks like I have to take that back. I am sure I have tested this in the past and it did work. But, digging out a book I knew I had done this for, it doesn't work now. I'll have to see if I have some notes on this and see if I can work out what's happening.