What does everyone have against EPUB?

hyegeek · 08-09-2009, 09:53 AM

Reading though the posts on this forum, there seems to be a definite bias against the EPUB format (at least on the hanlin). While there does seem to be some limitations (can't choose a system font or rotate content), the EPUB format is the only one I have been able to get to work with a navigable bible.

In order to have a usable bible on this device, you need to have a multi level TOC. The flat no nav bible that came with it was really a waste of space. Just try looking up something in Revelations or Malachi...

Using calibre, the only format that I could output that had a working multi level TOC was the EPUB format. Not only could I not get the fb2 format to do this, the resulting book crashed the reader pretty consistently. Same for the mobi format.

Now this could just be that I'm clueless about how to properly use calibre or those other formats, so feel free to educate me.

And speaking of calibre, it would be really nice if the latest version (0.6.5) would allow me to embed a font without having to hack it in later. It took me a while to get my Armenian translation of the bible to display with the Armenian character set instead of a bunch of ?s.

JSWolf · 08-09-2009, 09:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hyegeek

Reading though the posts on this forum, there seems to be a definite bias against the EPUB format (at least on the hanlin). While there does seem to be some limitations (can't choose a system font or rotate content), the EPUB format is the only one I have been able to get to work with a navigable bible.

I think what most people have against ePub is that they've purchased DRMed content in Mobipocket and unless they can strip the DRM, it will be useless on their readers. Nothing wrong with ePub otherwise.

HarryT · 08-09-2009, 12:13 PM

Note that the ePub format does not support font embedding. You can include a font in the ePub package, but that it is a completely different thing to font embedding, such as is supported by PDF or LRF.

Nate the great · 08-09-2009, 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hyegeek

Reading though the posts on this forum, there seems to be a definite bias against the EPUB format (at least on the hanlin). While there does seem to be some limitations (can't choose a system font or rotate content), the EPUB format is the only one I have been able to get to work with a navigable bible.

I don't think anyone really has a bias against Epub; I for one simply like another format more.

hyegeek · 08-09-2009, 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSWolf

I think what most people have against ePub is that they've purchased DRMed content in Mobipocket and unless they can strip the DRM, it will be useless on their readers. Nothing wrong with ePub otherwise.

Ah, I can see that. That is also why I don't plan on buying anything with DRM. I like to actually get what I pay for.

hyegeek · 08-09-2009, 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryT

Note that the ePub format does not support font embedding. You can include a font in the ePub package, but that it is a completely different thing to font embedding, such as is supported by PDF or LRF.

Hmm... I think I might need you to explain the difference. I just created an EPUB of the Bible in Armenian and "embedded" the font I needed to display it. Or so I thought.

daffy4u · 08-09-2009, 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSWolf

I think what most people have against ePub is that they've purchased DRMed content in Mobipocket and unless they can strip the DRM, it will be useless on their readers. Nothing wrong with ePub otherwise.

I don't think anyone has been against ePub. I've not seen threads or posts against it. True not everyone thinks it's the end all be all of formats but I haven't seen anyone saying "down with ePub"!

If there is a format which has a strong contingent against it for ebooks, I would think it's PDF.

Also, as you know *all* Mobipocket files can have DRM removed so, those files are never useless (unlike Topaz and LRX).

Elfwreck · 08-09-2009, 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hyegeek

Hmm... I think I might need you to explain the difference. I just created an EPUB of the Bible in Armenian and "embedded" the font I needed to display it. Or so I thought.

When you include a font in an EPUB, the whole font file (.ttf or .fot or whatever it is) is included in the collection of folders & html files that are zipped up into the EPUB.

EPUB is not so much a "format," as a way of packaging HTML files with a bit of metadata that says "this is an ePub file." You can include fonts in the package, but they're not embedded in the HTML files. Instead, the metadata says "use the font font at <location> when displaying these files."

By comparison, PDF embeds the font into the PDF--it's packed up into the file. (I'm told some coders can un-extract it, but it's not a simple matter of unzipping. And fonts in PDFs can be partially embedded--so only the characters actually used in that PDF are included.)

The big difference: Many fonts, including free fonts, are free for use but not distribution. Embedding it in a PDF file is "use." Putting it into the EPUB zip package is "distribution," and not legal to do without permission or payment.

Setting fonts of your choice for your own ePub reading is fine; setting them in an ePub to share may require permission.

hyegeek · 08-09-2009, 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elfwreck

The big difference: Many fonts, including free fonts, are free for use but not distribution. Embedding it in a PDF file is "use." Putting it into the EPUB zip package is "distribution," and not legal to do without permission or payment.

Setting fonts of your choice for your own ePub reading is fine; setting them in an ePub to share may require permission.

OK. That clears it up nicely. In my case (personal use) I don't care. Even so, the font I chose is the gnu freefont FreeSans, so not a problem anyway.

Thanks for the explanation.

Sweetpea · 08-10-2009, 03:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hyegeek

Reading though the posts on this forum, there seems to be a definite bias against the EPUB format (at least on the hanlin). While there does seem to be some limitations (can't choose a system font or rotate content), the EPUB format is the only one I have been able to get to work with a navigable bible.

Beside the fact what JSWolf mentioned (already owning DRM'd mobipocket books), there is also the amount of OS's supported. So far, epub is only available on linux devices. I can't read epub on my reading devices, which are Windows Mobile and Windows CE based. So, if I got a Hanlin (or any other e-ink device for that matter), I will have to convert everything to mobipocket so I can read it on all my devices.

Also, I've been using mobipocket for a long, long, long time now. I'm really used to that application and everything will be compared to it (and so far, all other readers I've used, just don't support what I want them to support)

weateallthepies · 08-10-2009, 04:00 AM

I like epub as a format and I've used it for a while now with FBReader as my format of choice.

What I often don't like is the implementation of epub readers on various devices, including my Hanlin. Previously it treated epubs like non-reflowable PDFs which was just silly. Now with the new firmware they reflow it but only in font sizes either insanely small or as large as my head.

This is why I'll stick with OpenInkpot and continue to strip DRM if I have to.

Ea · 08-10-2009, 05:34 AM

I don't have anything against epub, but with the reader devices I've had, and the books I buy, and in general the routines I have, epub just haven't worked out so well for me - or rather, other options have worked out better and were easier to deal with.

hyegeek · 08-10-2009, 08:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by weateallthepies

This is why I'll stick with OpenInkpot and continue to strip DRM if I have to.

Speaking of openinkpot, I seem to be having the opposite experience from what I have been reading from others. I can't seem to keep it from crashing. As a result, I have not been able to compare it's implementation of the epub reader.

It also seems much more sluggish. I have only used the live version booted from the original ROMs, so I may be missing something.

AlfonsVH · 08-10-2009, 08:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hyegeek

Speaking of openinkpot, I seem to be having the opposite experience from what I have been reading from others. I can't seem to keep it from crashing. As a result, I have not been able to compare it's implementation of the epub reader.

It also seems much more sluggish. I have only used the live version booted from the original ROMs, so I may be missing something.

The live-version is indeed much more prone to crashing.

You should try the full-install version found here: http://users.openinkpot.org/~lunohod/20090508/

hyegeek · 08-10-2009, 08:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlfonsVH

The live-version is indeed much more prone to crashing.

You should try the full-install version found here: http://users.openinkpot.org/~lunohod/20090508/

That's good to know. Openinkpot is one of the reasons I bought this reader, so I'd like it to be a real option.

Thanks.

08-09-2009, 09:53 AM	#1
hyegeek Groupie Posts: 156 Karma: 258122 Join Date: Dec 2007 Device: Ez Reader (hanlin v3)	What does everyone have against EPUB? Reading though the posts on this forum, there seems to be a definite bias against the EPUB format (at least on the hanlin). While there does seem to be some limitations (can't choose a system font or rotate content), the EPUB format is the only one I have been able to get to work with a navigable bible. In order to have a usable bible on this device, you need to have a multi level TOC. The flat no nav bible that came with it was really a waste of space. Just try looking up something in Revelations or Malachi... Using calibre, the only format that I could output that had a working multi level TOC was the EPUB format. Not only could I not get the fb2 format to do this, the resulting book crashed the reader pretty consistently. Same for the mobi format. Now this could just be that I'm clueless about how to properly use calibre or those other formats, so feel free to educate me. And speaking of calibre, it would be really nice if the latest version (0.6.5) would allow me to embed a font without having to hack it in later. It took me a while to get my Armenian translation of the bible to display with the Armenian character set instead of a bunch of ?s.

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08-09-2009, 12:13 PM	#3
HarryT eBook Enthusiast Posts: 85,544 Karma: 93383043 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: UK Device: Kindle Oasis 2, iPad Pro 10.5", iPhone 6	Note that the ePub format does not support font embedding. You can include a font in the ePub package, but that it is a completely different thing to font embedding, such as is supported by PDF or LRF.

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weateallthepies Lord of the Pies Posts: 252 Karma: 103458 Join Date: Mar 2009 Device: Kindle Scribe, Kindle Oasis 3, Kobo Sage, Onyx Boox Leaf 2, iPad Pro	I like epub as a format and I've used it for a while now with FBReader as my format of choice. What I often don't like is the implementation of epub readers on various devices, including my Hanlin. Previously it treated epubs like non-reflowable PDFs which was just silly. Now with the new firmware they reflow it but only in font sizes either insanely small or as large as my head. This is why I'll stick with OpenInkpot and continue to strip DRM if I have to.

08-10-2009, 05:34 AM	#12
Ea Wizard Posts: 3,490 Karma: 5239563 Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Denmark Device: Kindle 3\|iPad air\|iPhone 4S	I don't have anything against epub, but with the reader devices I've had, and the books I buy, and in general the routines I have, epub just haven't worked out so well for me - or rather, other options have worked out better and were easier to deal with.

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