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Old 01-07-2024, 06:48 PM   #1
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Scribe or Elipsa for Manga??

Hi,
Having read another thread here about this, the conclusion seems to be a 10.3" screen is needed to read Manga at the full size and without pillarboxing. So, assuming this is correct and because my experience reading Manga on my Forma could be better, I think either the Scribe or Elipsa 2E are contenders.

Have any of you experience with one or both for Manga please? Thoughts, criticisms, praise? Any info beyond what seems to be in just about every online review would be welcome
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Old 01-08-2024, 07:46 AM   #2
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If your eyesight is good the 8″ Sage has more pixels than an Elipsa.
I was going to get a Scribe even though I already had an Elipsa and Sage, but the locked down nature, need to convert PDFs via Amazon and then the notes via Amazon put me off. Then they changed it from 'Mass Storage' to 'USB MTP' which makes for very slow directory listings and much less flexibility, esp. on Mac or Linux. I use Linux though used Windows for 20+ years.
The Kobo models don't need the Internet to work.
Elipsa is 227 dpi and Scribe is 300 dpi. Sage is 300 dpi and I use it the most. Hardly use Elipsa at all since getting Sage.
I had a reMarkable 10.3″ for a while but it was dreadful.

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Old 01-08-2024, 08:30 AM   #3
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Thanks Quoth.

The MTP format would be better because my Forma database is constantly corrupting right now and MTP prevents this. However, being slower and not allowing access to the file system means it's a no from me. I had no idea the Scribe was built without mass storage access.

I'd prefer a higher dpi for the text in Manga, so the Elipsa is possibly not the best idea either.

I'm really torn as I wanted something bigger than my Forma and the Sage screen is the same size.
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Old 01-08-2024, 12:42 PM   #4
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I had no idea the Scribe was built without mass storage access.
The Scribe was released with USB Mass Storage support. The switch to MTP was with firmware version 5.16.3
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Old 01-08-2024, 02:41 PM   #5
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The MTP format would be better because my Forma database is constantly corrupting right now and MTP prevents this. However, being slower and not allowing access to the file system means it's a no from me. I had no idea the Scribe was built without mass storage access.
An interesting claim that MTP would prevent database corruption. Unless you are referring to Amazon's removing user access to the database as preventing database corruption?

On the Forma's database corruption, this appears to be due to either the KoboReader.sqlite or the BookReader.sqlite not being properly closed before the USB connection is completed. If you look at the contents of the .kobo directory, you will see those two databases plus <databasename>.sqlite-wal and <databasename>.sqlite.shm (write ahead logging and shared memory) for either one or both of them if the databases were not properly closed.

This is why for now, I reboot my Sage before connecting to the computer. NickelMenu makes this an easy task and take a <10 seconds.

For me, this was more acceptable than reverting to 4.35.20400.

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I'm really torn as I wanted something bigger than my Forma and the Sage screen is the same size.
There are two new Kobo devices listed at the FCC but the ghods alone know when the N428 listed on 2023-Oct-18 or the N365 listed on 2023-Dec-24 are going to be released though it's generally been 3-4 months from FCC listing to release.

BadeReader has stated a belief that the N428 will be a Kobo Sage 2e or a Kobo Libra 2e but going by their track record, this is likely totally incorrect.
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Old 01-08-2024, 02:56 PM   #6
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The MTP format would be better because my Forma database is constantly corrupting right now and MTP prevents this..
No, MTP is almost irrelevant. AFAIK Kindle doesn't have the database accessible on the user partition of Scribe when it used mass storage (or any current Kindle) which is why Calibre can't do series and collections on the Kindles. MTP is not a format, but a protocol. It has advantages and disadvantages. It was invented by MS, possibly to aid DRM on the Zune. Android adopted it at maybe Version 4.0. It was an enhancement of Picture Transfer Protocol (PTP). We don't know exactly why Amazon changed the Scribe from Mass Storage to MTP. It could be for future extra control, or larger partitions.

Also 4.34.x or 4.35.20400 on Forma should be OK, and not everyone has issues with database corruption. I've not had the problem, thought there is one. Supposedly the next FW will fix the SQLight Database being left open (and MTP would not much help that).

Links to older Kobo FW at the bottom: https://pgaskin.net/KoboStuff/kobofirmware.html

There are multiple partitions on Kindle and Kobo and only one is accessible via USB.

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Old 01-09-2024, 12:09 AM   #7
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since you already got a forma i would suggest Scribe, it has 300 DPI, cheaper, and you're only reading so no need to expect more from it (better software updates).
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Old 01-09-2024, 06:33 AM   #8
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An interesting claim that MTP would prevent database corruption.
Not my claim, it's just what I read about the protocol.
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Old 01-09-2024, 06:42 AM   #9
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Thanks for the replies. I went in search of info on MTP and it does appear to have primarily been implemented for DRM and Linux adopted some extra safeguards around preventing database or file system corruption while using the protocol, hence my comment. Since that post I read more about it and now think it's a bad thing for an ereader, so I doubt the Scribe will by my first choice.

I will probably now wait and see what the two new Kobo models are. An 8" reader is not ideal for Manga and the Elipsa is probably the only larger one readily available in the UK right now.
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Old 01-09-2024, 08:15 AM   #10
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The MTP does allow an ext4 partition, which wouldn't work easily with Mac or Windows. Mass Storage usually uses FAT32, or maybe exFAT above 32 G. Amazon may have swapped to better support 64G and larger storage on Scribe.
My 256G SD Cards and micro SD Cards in Camera (Mass Storage mode) or Tablet (Android MTP) both use exFAT.
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Old 01-09-2024, 09:05 AM   #11
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The MTP does allow an ext4 partition, which wouldn't work easily with Mac or Windows. Mass Storage usually uses FAT32, or maybe exFAT above 32 G. Amazon may have swapped to better support 64G and larger storage on Scribe.
My 256G SD Cards and micro SD Cards in Camera (Mass Storage mode) or Tablet (Android MTP) both use exFAT.
From what I'm reading, it seems despite the file system used, MTP can only help with prevention of corruption if certain OS flags are used in conjunction with this protocol. Most of what I read has been about Linux using MTP.

The cynic in me is more inclined to believe adoption of MTP by the likes of Amazon is more about DRM implementation than anything else. After all, MTP was designed specifically for this purpose afaik.
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Old 01-09-2024, 07:01 PM   #12
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Everyone has their ideas about why Amazon changed to using MTP. I do not think there is any one reason.

First: it is not noticeably slower than USB mass storage, at least comparing file transfer times and how long it takes calibre (or MTP client/system file utility) to get directory listing, comparing Paperwhite 11th/gen 'PW5' to Scribe, both of which have USB-C interface. If anything, at least on macOS, it is faster for file transfers. MTP 'mounts' (or whatever MTP equivalent is) much faster as well.

It is probably a good guess that all future Kindle models will also use MTP.

They probably intended Scribe to have it when it shipped, but like several other features, it wasn't ready. I don't think it will be applied retroactively to previous Kindles, there are too many customers who would be impacted. At this point most people with Scribes never had USB storage at all.

Fire tablets also use MTP. So one benefit is that they share common way of connecting to a computer. It's very transparent on Windows (probably 75% share?), where MTP client is built in to Explorer (thanks to the extinct Zune). It doesn't interfere with calibre either (except for thumbnails not currently getting copied for side-loaded books).

Then there's no issues with disconnecting cable during file transfer (we can debate whether there are any with USB mass storage, but both Windows and macOS complain if you do not Eject properly).

Finally there have been rumors that Amazon wants to update 'Kindle OS', perhaps with some flavor of Fire OS/Android (I have come to think this is the main reason for the change). This might let them share code with Kindle app, make it easier to update the reading app independently from the rest of the system. Switching to MTP smoothes the path to doing so.

And yes, this would probably mean Download for USB transfer would remain convenient path for DRM removal only if you had a legacy device registered to your account. It is only in that sense that it is about tightening DRM. It's more about streamlining development going forward, having convergence in development and testing tools, and making it easier to find people with the skills to work on it.

Currently, everything that USB mass storage lets you get at is equally accessible via MPT (and with latter none of it is 'hidden').

Harder to jailbreak, maybe. But not an issue for Fire tablets which are routinely jail broken. Not my area of expertise. But I doubt Amazon cares.

It's also less flexible to automate file transfers: no command line access with usual commands (ls/dir, cp/copy, mkdir, chdir, chmod/attrib, etc.).

On Windows, you can automate Explorer with PowerShell (from what I've read: have yet to investigate); on macOS I've managed to install a set of command line tools that comprise a thin wrapper on MTP library (brew install libmtp), but those tools in turn need some shell scripts or some other wrapper to make things simpler.

But for example, there's no cross-platform Python library for MTP (apart from what Kovid has done for calibre, which is tailored for calibre). Someone more experienced and knowledgeable than I could probably covert that in a few days to an official Python package that would be available from PyPi, etc. And could be used with Android devices.

As for Scribe vs. Elipsa for manga, I am Switzerland.

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Old 01-10-2024, 05:03 AM   #13
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As for Scribe vs. Elipsa for manga, I am Switzerland.
All the bits of you will have a referendum, but the government can veto if it decides the decision is not implementable?

MTP is not slower for file transfer, but with a large number of files it is much slower for a directory listing, unless the storage is slow.

The Fire is using Android, which is why it's MTP.

The apps on Android (inc Fire) don't use MTP. That's only for the host transfers. Sharing application code between the eink Kindle and Fire/Android is unrelated to MTP.

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Old 01-10-2024, 09:13 PM   #14
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All the bits of you will have a referendum, but the government can veto if it decides the decision is not implementable?

MTP is not slower for file transfer, but with a large number of files it is much slower for a directory listing, unless the storage is slow.

The Fire is using Android, which is why it's MTP.

The apps on Android (inc Fire) don't use MTP. That's only for the host transfers. Sharing application code between the eink Kindle and Fire/Android is unrelated to MTP.
The MTP client only has to get the directory listing one time, there is no need for the client to recurse through it with multiple calls. Kindle's accessible storage does not have millions of files so it is not a lengthy operation, in fact it is very fast.

The point about MTP is that client does not need to know anything about the OS, in fact it cannot know. So Amazon is free to use whatever file system or OS they like.

Sharing code can be done without MTP, obviously. But if they are moving to a common OS with Fire for that purpose, they would not be using anything other than MTP.

'I am Switzerland' is a metaphor for neutrality. No referendums are implied.
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Old 01-11-2024, 10:17 AM   #15
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'I am Switzerland' is a metaphor for neutrality. No referendums are implied.
All that about MTP said before, and it's File System that's hidden. The OS is irrelevant anyway, as even USB Mass Storage FAT32 was used on Android and is still used with non-MS OS clients. In fact the client OS over USB Mass Storage using FAT32 is nearly never Windows or DOS. It's used because it works with all Host OS. Also a USB Memory stick has no OS. On USB Mass Storage, USB Networking USB PTP or USB MTP the client knows nothing about the host OS. A USB keyboard, mouse, or memory stick will have no OS. You can have a USB MTP or Mass Storage client on a PIC microcontroller with no OS as such. An HDD (IDE, SATA, SCSI or native USB Mass storage) probably has some sort of small OS, but the host can't tell, and it doesn't care about host OS. USB connections of ANY KIND are OS agnostic.

The directory listing via MTP is slower than Mass Storage everything else being equal and can be very slow even with a few hundred files on Android. I don't know why, but it's true.

'I am Switzerland' is a terrible metaphor for neutrality.
Just say you are neutral, if you mean it.

Switzerland means so many things. The most significant unique thing is how the Confederation is governed (formed 1848). Sweden, Austria, Ireland, Switzerland and other places have had various kinds of neutrality (Sweden over 250 years till 2022, Austria after WWII, Ireland since 1922).
Sweden's was self imposed and abandoned due to 2nd 21st C Russian invasion of Ukraine. Despite being neutral, a major arms exporter.

Austria's was imposed by winners of WWII, and voluntarily ratified in 1955.

Ireland's is 'customary' and not in Law or Constitution. Troops serve in UN forces. No fighter aircraft, warships, missiles, artillery or tanks. No longer any AA guns (though those were rubbish during WWII). Allied airmen 'escaped' and German airmen interned during WWII.

Switzerland Austria, France, the United Kingdom, Portugal, Prussia, Russia, Spain and Sweden) agreed at the Congress of Vienna in May 1815 that Switzerland should be neutral, final ratification was delayed until after Napoleon Bonaparte was defeated so that some coalition forces could invade France via Swiss territory. It's now in their Constitution. One of last in Europe or the World to join UN (Isolationist rather than neutral) in 2002. or give women the vote (Some Cantons 1959, federal 1971, last Canton 1990). During WWII both sides attacked Switzerland and all combatants were interned till the end of the war. See air battles and bombing. Switzerland has four official languages and no sea access. Very high cost of living.
You do not want to be Switzerland.

The UN principles are based on The Peace of Westphalia in 1648 which was the start of the idea of Swiss Neutrality. It's League of Nations 2.0.

However they have joined sanctions against Russia. As their Constitution forbids supplying weapons to a country at war they can't supply Ukraine. They are 'supplying' Germany.
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There is really no such thing as a neutral country. Either it's self interest, isolationism, imposed by a defeat or avoiding liabilities.
Sweden, Austria and Ireland were neutral when joining EU. Only Sweden has completely abandoned neutrality.

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