PDF usability

CEW4 · 09-17-2011, 02:56 PM

Hi everyone,

long time no read... ;-)

Well, so I recently got myself a Kindle 3 as my second ebook reader (actually, I got two of them - I got a nice offer on the second, and since I couldn't really make up my mind for either the the WLAN-only or the 3G version anyway... <g>)

My first impression: Nice. Not a revolution compared to my old reader, but rather nice indeed.

Second impression: Wait a moment - what about PDF? My previous reader had "reflow" handling which worked quite well in most cases. When I copied a PDF onto the Kindle I ended up with a 1:1 view of each page - wonderful, a A4-page on an 6" screen. What good is this supposed to do?

Once again, Calibre saved the day. It was able to convert the PDF to MOBI, whereafter the document displayed decently on the Kindle. But is that really the best the Kindle can do? My year-old previous reader that nobody fails to knock if you even hint at the name (that's right, the Thalia Oyo :-) ) could even do better, and by a landslide!

Am I missing something here?

RainingLemur · 09-17-2011, 04:07 PM

From my experience in trying to put PDF's on the Kindle, it's hit or miss. Granted, I tend to put them on the Nook Color if I need to. But, I like having some of my RPG books on the Kindle since it's convenient. I've had less-than-stellar luck with converting them to mobi, though.

CEW4 · 09-27-2011, 07:51 PM

Well, I now blocked the PDF-format in Calibre for the Kindle and transfer everything as MOBI. This works quite well, at least it's good enough for my usage. :-)

tomsem · 09-28-2011, 01:16 AM

Before I gave up on the concept of PDF-on-6" screen, I would eke out a little more usability by cropping the headers/footers. When that wasn't enough, viewing in landscape worked pretty well. Of course you can author PDFs that are perfectly usable on Kindle by setting the page size appropriately, but that's rarely what you are dealing with in 3rd party content.

Another problem is that Kindle does not let you navigate PDF bookmarks (typically marking the beginning of chapters, etc.), or PDF links to footnotes or illustrations.

For full page PDF viewing, my conclusion is you really need at least 1024x768 resolution. Kindle DX is adequate, but again does not have navigation features that you'd expect. Performance is lacking also.

Sony Reader has always had the best small-screen PDF support. But again, there's no substitute for resolution.

PDF reflow should be seen as a last resort. In practice, for the type of PDFs I want to view, it has never really worked well enough. Kindle's landscape viewing mode is usually better than reflowed PDF content.

By contrast, my Xoom tablet (1280x800) is GREAT for PDF viewing. Ironically, the reflowable formats tend not to be as pleasant, in part because many of the reading apps are not yet optimized for large screens (e.g. no margin adjustment or 2-column-landscape option), and images prepared for small screens are too small and most apps don't let you zoom them. When I have a choice between ePub and PDF, I usually pick PDF.

llreader · 09-28-2011, 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CEW4

Well, I now blocked the PDF-format in Calibre for the Kindle and transfer everything as MOBI. This works quite well, at least it's good enough for my usage. :-)

Any tips on Calibre settings for a good conversion? Thanks!

Josieb1 · 09-28-2011, 12:55 PM

I have two Kindles, a wifi and a 3G, I read a lot of text PDFs and converted them in Calibre to mobi format, BUT, the conversion is really hit and miss, and this week I bought a Sony PRS650 just so I don't have to convert them any more. I love my Kindle, I really do, but not providing PDF reflow is a big issue for me, so until they do i'll just need two ereaders.

llreader · 09-28-2011, 01:54 PM

Kindle doesn't do reflow? Gah! It is bad enough that reflow has to be enabled by the person who creates the PDF, but not even taking advantage of that seems dumb.

In any case, I'm not sure if anything but an 8" (vertical) screen will help with my biggest problem, which is two-column journal articles with images (forget the images, double columns without reflo has to be viewed in landscape mode with a magnifying glass).

llreader · 09-28-2011, 01:56 PM

BTW, does the Kindle even do landscape mode?

Daveoc64 · 09-28-2011, 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by llreader

BTW, does the Kindle even do landscape mode?

yes. You can rotate the Kindle display by 90 degrees in each direction (even upside down and "vertical"!

llreader · 09-28-2011, 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daveoc64

yes. You can rotate the Kindle display by 90 degrees in each direction (even upside down and "vertical"!

Excellent! Someone in another forum just pointed me to this:

http://www.willus.com/k2pdfopt/

Looks promising for the dual-column stuff.

09-17-2011, 02:56 PM	#1
CEW4 Member Posts: 23 Karma: 10 Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Germany Device: Oyo, Kindle	PDF usability Hi everyone, long time no read... ;-) Well, so I recently got myself a Kindle 3 as my second ebook reader (actually, I got two of them - I got a nice offer on the second, and since I couldn't really make up my mind for either the the WLAN-only or the 3G version anyway... <g>) My first impression: Nice. Not a revolution compared to my old reader, but rather nice indeed. Second impression: Wait a moment - what about PDF? My previous reader had "reflow" handling which worked quite well in most cases. When I copied a PDF onto the Kindle I ended up with a 1:1 view of each page - wonderful, a A4-page on an 6" screen. What good is this supposed to do? Once again, Calibre saved the day. It was able to convert the PDF to MOBI, whereafter the document displayed decently on the Kindle. But is that really the best the Kindle can do? My year-old previous reader that nobody fails to knock if you even hint at the name (that's right, the Thalia Oyo :-) ) could even do better, and by a landslide! Am I missing something here?

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09-17-2011, 04:07 PM	#2
RainingLemur Spork Connoisseur Posts: 2,355 Karma: 16780603 Join Date: Mar 2011 Device: Nook Color	From my experience in trying to put PDF's on the Kindle, it's hit or miss. Granted, I tend to put them on the Nook Color if I need to. But, I like having some of my RPG books on the Kindle since it's convenient. I've had less-than-stellar luck with converting them to mobi, though.

09-27-2011, 07:51 PM	#3
CEW4 Member Posts: 23 Karma: 10 Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Germany Device: Oyo, Kindle	Well, I now blocked the PDF-format in Calibre for the Kindle and transfer everything as MOBI. This works quite well, at least it's good enough for my usage. :-)

09-28-2011, 01:16 AM	#4
tomsem Grand Sorcerer Posts: 6,477 Karma: 26425959 Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: USA Device: iPhone 15PM, Kindle Scribe, iPad mini 6, PocketBook InkPad Color 3	Before I gave up on the concept of PDF-on-6" screen, I would eke out a little more usability by cropping the headers/footers. When that wasn't enough, viewing in landscape worked pretty well. Of course you can author PDFs that are perfectly usable on Kindle by setting the page size appropriately, but that's rarely what you are dealing with in 3rd party content. Another problem is that Kindle does not let you navigate PDF bookmarks (typically marking the beginning of chapters, etc.), or PDF links to footnotes or illustrations. For full page PDF viewing, my conclusion is you really need at least 1024x768 resolution. Kindle DX is adequate, but again does not have navigation features that you'd expect. Performance is lacking also. Sony Reader has always had the best small-screen PDF support. But again, there's no substitute for resolution. PDF reflow should be seen as a last resort. In practice, for the type of PDFs I want to view, it has never really worked well enough. Kindle's landscape viewing mode is usually better than reflowed PDF content. By contrast, my Xoom tablet (1280x800) is GREAT for PDF viewing. Ironically, the reflowable formats tend not to be as pleasant, in part because many of the reading apps are not yet optimized for large screens (e.g. no margin adjustment or 2-column-landscape option), and images prepared for small screens are too small and most apps don't let you zoom them. When I have a choice between ePub and PDF, I usually pick PDF.

09-28-2011, 12:55 PM	#6
Josieb1 Grand Sorcerer Posts: 5,009 Karma: 18018738 Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: UK Device: Kobo Forma, Libra2, Clara 2e, Kindle PW SE & Kindle 2022	I have two Kindles, a wifi and a 3G, I read a lot of text PDFs and converted them in Calibre to mobi format, BUT, the conversion is really hit and miss, and this week I bought a Sony PRS650 just so I don't have to convert them any more. I love my Kindle, I really do, but not providing PDF reflow is a big issue for me, so until they do i'll just need two ereaders.

09-28-2011, 01:54 PM	#7
llreader Mesmerist Posts: 331 Karma: 506558 Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Spain Device: PRS-600 Silver. Much nicer than I expected.	Kindle doesn't do reflow? Gah! It is bad enough that reflow has to be enabled by the person who creates the PDF, but not even taking advantage of that seems dumb. In any case, I'm not sure if anything but an 8" (vertical) screen will help with my biggest problem, which is two-column journal articles with images (forget the images, double columns without reflo has to be viewed in landscape mode with a magnifying glass).

09-28-2011, 01:56 PM	#8
llreader Mesmerist Posts: 331 Karma: 506558 Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Spain Device: PRS-600 Silver. Much nicer than I expected.	BTW, does the Kindle even do landscape mode?

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