eBook prices?

[DNSB]

Originally Posted by Apparition B5

Yeah, that's the main reason why I dropped my Kobo VIP subscription. None of the books by the big five publishers are eligible, and the vast, vast majority of the independent eBooks I'm interested in are solely available for sale on Amazon. It's a shame, but for whatever reason(s), most independent eBook authors (including big ones like Lois McMaster Bujold), do not put their eBooks up for sale on Kobo, Google Play Books, etc.

When I do a search for Lois McMaster Bujold on Kobo and I find 3 of her series listed, all of which are available for points. The only series in ebook format I find on Amazon that is not also available on Kobo is the Penric series along with the Vorkosigan series novella The Flowers of Vashnoi. Oddly both the Penric series and The Flowers of Vashnoi are available on both Kobo and Amazon in audiobook (well, will be available in October for TFoV) format.

A quick search with a blank search term for English language books comes up with 3,235,548 ebooks. Adding points to the search criteria drops this to 1,778,214. Changing the search criteria to free comes up with 1,296,668. So of the 3,235,548 English language ebooks available, 3,074,882 are available either for points or free (~95%). While playing with the search, there are 1,944,134 ebooks available for $5.00 Cdn or less while 256,188 ebooks cost at least $40.00 Cdn. The expensive end has 232,022 non-fiction being by far the largest subset with fiction collections (box sets) being most of the fiction.

Removing the English language criteria, changes the results to 4,895,979 ebooks, 2,300,830 available for points and 1,820,491 are free so ~84% are available either for points or free.

[darryl]

The summary by fjtorres is both excellent and accurate.

There are indeed two distinct and separate economies. Unsurprisingly, of course, those two separate and distinct economies are themselves competing. The "legacy" publishers behave as if their books are so superior that they are above competition with Indies. Again unsurprisingly in todays big publishing landscape of celebrity memoirs and politicians memoirs and self-help books, this does not seem to be working for them. Their frenzied pursuit of the next mega-seller has resulted in them cutting many of their mid-list authors loose. It's not hard to guess that many of these authors continue writing and go to Indie publishing. Many have been so happy with the move that they have sought reversion of their backlist titles to publish as Indies. The legacy publishing share of total ebook sales are continually declining, and they have lost some genres almost entirely, romance being the foremost example. Articles regularly appear in various publications proclaiming that ebook adoption has stalled and print is enjoying a resurgence. This is usually backed up by data from established industry sources which deal with the Indie market by simply ignoring its existence. More realistic sources such as Author Earnings attempt to cover both markets and show that the overall ebook market continues to grow, with Indie's taking an ever larger share.

The downside to Indie publishing is also its greatest advantage. That is the lack of curation. If anyone can publish and distribute an ebook, there will be some ebooks published which should never have seen the light of day. The good news is that such ebooks are relatively easy to avoid with minimal effort. When considering a new author, read the sample. This will quickly eliminate books with terrible punctuation and grammar and even some which are simply badly written. Reviews can be useful but should be taken with a grain of salt. We all develop our own methods for avoiding really awful books. Even if we do make a mistake, its much better to waste $3.99 than $14.99. I've bought some terrible legacy published books over the years as well, and quite frankly think their curatorship is a drawback rather than an advantage. Others feel differently, which is fine.

Whether you prefer legacy or Indie publishing, or a mixture, enjoy your reading. I still read the odd legacy title but tend to get them from the library given the pricing situation.

[AnemicOak]

Originally Posted by DNSB

When I do a search for Lois McMaster Bujold on Kobo and I find 3 of her series listed, all of which are available for points. The only series in ebook format I find on Amazon that is not also available on Kobo is the Penric series along with the Vorkosigan series novella The Flowers of Vashnoi. Oddly both the Penric series and The Flowers of Vashnoi are available on both Kobo and Amazon in audiobook (well, will be available in October for TFoV) format.

I'm guessing by "independent ebooks" they meant the Penric series which she self publishes through her agent. Those are only available, as ebooks anyway, from Amazon, Apple and B&N to the best of my knowledge.

[Apparition B5]

Originally Posted by AnemicOak

I'm guessing by "independent ebooks" they meant the Penric series which she self publishes through her agent. Those are only available, as ebooks anyway, from Amazon, Apple and B&N to the best of my knowledge.

Not just Penric, but most of the Vorkosigan Saga as well. Only the books still published by Baen are available on Kobo. The fourteen or so Vorkosigan Saga novels she now self-publishes are only available on Amazon, Apple, and B&N.

[pwalker8]

Originally Posted by darryl

The summary by fjtorres is both excellent and accurate.

There are indeed two distinct and separate economies. Unsurprisingly, of course, those two separate and distinct economies are themselves competing. The "legacy" publishers behave as if their books are so superior that they are above competition with Indies. Again unsurprisingly in todays big publishing landscape of celebrity memoirs and politicians memoirs and self-help books, this does not seem to be working for them. Their frenzied pursuit of the next mega-seller has resulted in them cutting many of their mid-list authors loose. It's not hard to guess that many of these authors continue writing and go to Indie publishing. Many have been so happy with the move that they have sought reversion of their backlist titles to publish as Indies. The legacy publishing share of total ebook sales are continually declining, and they have lost some genres almost entirely, romance being the foremost example. Articles regularly appear in various publications proclaiming that ebook adoption has stalled and print is enjoying a resurgence. This is usually backed up by data from established industry sources which deal with the Indie market by simply ignoring its existence. More realistic sources such as Author Earnings attempt to cover both markets and show that the overall ebook market continues to grow, with Indie's taking an ever larger share.

The downside to Indie publishing is also its greatest advantage. That is the lack of curation. If anyone can publish and distribute an ebook, there will be some ebooks published which should never have seen the light of day. The good news is that such ebooks are relatively easy to avoid with minimal effort. When considering a new author, read the sample. This will quickly eliminate books with terrible punctuation and grammar and even some which are simply badly written. Reviews can be useful but should be taken with a grain of salt. We all develop our own methods for avoiding really awful books. Even if we do make a mistake, its much better to waste $3.99 than $14.99. I've bought some terrible legacy published books over the years as well, and quite frankly think their curatorship is a drawback rather than an advantage. Others feel differently, which is fine.

Whether you prefer legacy or Indie publishing, or a mixture, enjoy your reading. I still read the odd legacy title but tend to get them from the library given the pricing situation.

Well, yes and no.

With books, as with music, the artist is the biggest selling point.

I agree with your point about the big publishers chasing the next mega-hit to the detriment of their old bread and butter authors. Unfortunately, that seems to be the way business is now, everyone is chasing the big payday rather than going with solid returns. This puts pressure on big businesses to up their returns. That's one reason I think we will eventually see a return of the small and mid tier publishing companies who aren't as focused on investors and stock prices, i.e. a lot more Baen type Publishers like we saw before the publishing world started to consolidate.

Indies who can develop a following do pretty well. This includes authors who started in the traditional publishing area as well as authors who started in the indie area. The biggest issue that any author has is getting the word out on new books and keeping their name in front of fans. As it was famously said, an author's biggest issue isn't piracy, it's obscurity. Most authors are still trying to figure that out. Some use blogs, some social media. It really is a very difficult problem.

I will say that any author who depends on one company for all their business is taking a risk. The only person who has your interest at heart is you. Amazon doesn't care about individual authors, they just want to make as much money as possible. Same for the traditional publishers. While some here want to paint Amazon as the good guy and traditional publishers as the bad guy, there is very little difference between them. They are all mega companies that look only at the bottom line. That's one of the reasons that it's smart for indies to make sure their ebooks are available on the major ebook sites (Amazon Kindle Store, Apple iBooks, B&N and Kobo). The other being that you reach a bigger potential audience.

The whole ebook business is still evolving, just like most of the entertainment world. What's true today may not be true tomorrow.

[Fiat_Lux]

Originally Posted by fjtorres

but when it comes to books you need to factor in that there are *two*distinct and separate economies.

The traditional, legacy economy from past centuries revolves around "curation" and the power to say no. ( "No, we won't sell your book.")
...
Now, lets turn to ebooks and the second economy.
Very different story.

There is also a third economy - academia.

This is the world in which is semi-discredited work written in 1940, can, as an eBook, be licensed for a single user, on a single device, for US$50.00.

There is a trade paperback on my wishlist, that has an MSRP of US$400. That pricing is because it is within the world of academia. Is it really worth US$400? I have no idea. In the only review I've seen, the reviewer stated that it was outside their field of expertise, but it looked interesting.

Amber

[DNSB]

Originally Posted by Apparition B5

Not just Penric, but most of the Vorkosigan Saga as well. Only the books still published by Baen are available on Kobo. The fourteen or so Vorkosigan Saga novels she now self-publishes are only available on Amazon, Apple, and B&N.

Interesting. I must admit that I purchased the various Vorkosigan stories from Baen mostly as part of monthly bundles and they still show as available on my account but that means nothing to someone who is looking for a new purchase. I hadn't realized how long it's been until I noticed the The Warrior's Apprentice is now available in a 30th anniversary edition. The decades flew by and somehow I have 421 ebooks attached to my Baen account though 78 or so are the Grantville Gazette.

[pwalker8]

Originally Posted by DNSB

Interesting. I must admit that I purchased the various Vorkosigan stories from Baen mostly as part of monthly bundles and they still show as available on my account but that means nothing to someone who is looking for a new purchase. I hadn't realized how long it's been until I noticed the The Warrior's Apprentice is now available in a 30th anniversary edition. The decades flew by and somehow I have 421 ebooks attached to my Baen account though 78 or so are the Grantville Gazette.

Yea, the same with Amazon. Once you buy something it's in your content, but a specific book may no longer be available for new purchases. I've told someone else a few times that a book is available on Amazon, but they can't see it. It's happens with audiobooks as well.

[ZodWallop]

Originally Posted by Derf

...Fast forward to Netflix days, and for $12 a month I can now see all kinds of ORIGINAL content. The content is still entertaining, maybe it doesn't cost $120 Million Dollars to produce an hour and twenty minutes of entertainment, but it still entertains me. And I'm happy with that.

I like hearing that there is a subscription model for eBooks, but I don't really like that business practice - it just sounds terrible.

What's the different between Netflix original content and Amazon's Kindle Unlimited exclusivity? You can't watch Stranger Things on Hulu after all.

[AnemicOak]

Originally Posted by Apparition B5

Not just Penric, but most of the Vorkosigan Saga as well. Only the books still published by Baen are available on Kobo. The fourteen or so Vorkosigan Saga novels she now self-publishes are only available on Amazon, Apple, and B&N.

Ah yeah, I'd forgotten she was self-pubbing (kind of, her agent is doing it for her) some of those.

[haertig]

After reading through this very interesting thread, I was wondering if I could actually name "The Big 5" publishers. I managed to get three correct, and one half correct (I didn't realize that "Penguin" went with "Random House"). During my search for the answer, I found a pretty neat chart of who-owns-who-owns-who:

https://almossawi.com/big-five-publishers/

Most of the book publishers I remember from "back in the day" (Ballantine, Bantam, Del Rey, etc.) are now a part of the Random House leg of the big 5 Penguin Random House publisher. This probably has a lot to do with the type of books I was reading back then (SciFi).

This is mostly useless trivia for me, but at least it helps me see "who/what goes where" in some of the discussions that pop up on this forum.

[DNSB]

Originally Posted by haertig

After reading through this very interesting thread, I was wondering if I could actually name "The Big 5" publishers. I managed to get three correct, and one half correct (I didn't realize that "Penguin" went with "Random House"). During my search for the answer, I found a pretty neat chart of who-owns-who-owns-who:

I was scratching my head the first time I saw the Randy Penguin listed as a publisher. Almost as bad as the time I saw an SF author referred to as "Erotic Attic".

[maddz]

Originally Posted by DNSB

Almost as bad as the time I saw an SF author referred to as "Erotic Attic".

Boggle. Now you've got me trying to work out who that could be.

[Apache]

Originally Posted by DNSB

Almost as bad as the time I saw an SF author referred to as "Erotic Attic".

Originally Posted by maddz

Boggle. Now you've got me trying to work out who that could be.

Me too.
Apache

[pwalker8]

Originally Posted by AnemicOak

Ah yeah, I'd forgotten she was self-pubbing (kind of, her agent is doing it for her) some of those.

She is one of those authors who I expected to start moving her backlist ebooks via self publishing. She has good name recognition and I would guess has a very steady sell rate from month to month for those books. I suspect that the fact that she has her agent doing the grunt work for her is a big part of the reason.