MobileRead 2016 Book Club CATEGORY Vote

[treadlightly]

I assumed that they were both non-fiction categories. But it could be argued that factual History may have a hint of fiction in it, no? And Science could include a lot of speculation. But still, Non-fiction as a genre.

I didn't add "Fiction" to the end of Contemporary but I wish I had.

[Dazrin]

Originally Posted by HomeInMyShoes

^I think both of those were obvious in meaning based on how they were nominated. I know I didn't take them for anything other than what you wrote. Both based in the non-fiction and not fiction side.

History to me has never included fiction. Anyone suggesting either category can include fiction is gaming the category.

Ditto.

[sun surfer]

Hamlet, I don't think you have anything to worry about. Whenever a winning category is up, I expect us to follow whatever description it was given in the category nomination thread, whether by the nominator or hammered out by the nominator and supporters. I can't speak for Tom so we'll have to see what he says but maybe he didn't add the parentheses to the titles in your categories because it was obvious from the category names, i.e. Historical Fiction vs History and Science Fiction vs Science.

[John F]

Originally Posted by sun surfer

Hamlet, I don't think you have anything to worry about. Whenever a winning category is up, I expect us to follow whatever description it was given in the category nomination thread, whether by the nominator or hammered out by the nominator and supporters. I can't speak for Tom so we'll have to see what he says but maybe he didn't add the parentheses to the titles in your categories because it was obvious from the category names, i.e. Historical Fiction vs History and Science Fiction vs Science.

I expect to follow what is in the first post of the vote thread. We had a whole year to discuss categories, I would expect everything to be ironed out before nominations and voting happens.

[issybird]

Originally Posted by Hamlet53

"War is the continuation of politics by other means." Carl von Clausewitz

I understand taken as a whole package war can be a very interesting topic. Just as an aside I recently read a book you had nominated in a book for the month here recently—Rites of Peace: The Fall of Napoleon and the Congress of Vienna by Adam Zamoyski—and gave it a high star ranking (for me) at Goodreads. I did not actually write any sort of review (just too lazy) but I believe that it would be right up your alley. Not only a detailed analysis of the at least temporarily successful attempts to turn back the clock in Europe to before the American Revolution, the French Revolution, and Napoleon but also all the dirt on how the congress was the opportunity for major and minor royalty and nobility from all over Europe come together to 'party hearty' and f_ like bunny rabbits. It would even fit into the War category under consideration here.

Thank you for the affirmation and recommendation. Waterloo for the book club pushed it aside, but I have it and mean to get to it soon, indeed as of more interest to me than the topic of the battle of Waterloo. I agree that War as a category has broad shoulders, although as with your nominations, I see it as a non-fiction topic.

(I see that bfisher also gave it four stars.)

[CRussel]

Originally Posted by issybird

Thank you for the affirmation and recommendation. Waterloo for the book club pushed it aside, but I have it and mean to get to it soon, indeed as of more interest to me than the topic of the battle of Waterloo. I agree that War as a category has broad shoulders, although as with your nominations, I see it as a non-fiction topic.

There were some interesting suggestions for the War topic that were fictional. (The O'Brian Aubrey/Maturin series and the Ringo/Weber Empire of Man series.) I'm not at all sure what I think of expanding War to cover fiction as well, but it certainly does broaden the category.

[issybird]

Originally Posted by CRussel

There were some interesting suggestions for the War topic that were fictional. (The O'Brian Aubrey/Maturin series and the Ringo/Weber Empire of Man series.) I'm not at all sure what I think of expanding War to cover fiction as well, but it certainly does broaden the category.

Oh, I have no issue with the broad category! I was just saying how I saw it. There are a lot of great war novels, I totally agree.

[Nyssa]

Are there examples of Thriller, Suspense & Crime that are neither covered by Mystery nor Horror?

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by Hamlet53

"War is the continuation of politics by other means." Carl von Clausewitz

But remember, if war does win, no political discussion in the book club forum. There's a separate forum for that. Sorry, MR rules.

[issybird]

Originally Posted by Nyssa

Are there examples of Thriller, Suspense & Crime that are neither covered by Mystery nor Horror?

Sure. Spy novels, for one. Also, books like Day of the Jackal or In Cold Blood.

[issybird]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

But remember, if war does win, no political discussion in the book club forum. There's a separate forum for that. Sorry, MR rules.

So, if a book about the American Revolution, say, were chosen, that means we couldn't discuss the political differences between the Patriots and the Loyalists? Or the Cavaliers and the Roundheads in the English Civil War?

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by Nyssa

Are there examples of Thriller, Suspense & Crime that are neither covered by Mystery nor Horror?

The following sums up very well what the differences are and how these really should not have been combined.

http://www.dailywritingtips.com/is-y...r-or-suspense/

mystery: the main character is occupied in tracking down the truth about an event, usually a murder. If the protagonist is in any danger, it is usually moderate, and becomes a problem only as the detective approaches the truth.

thriller: the protagonist is in danger from the outset.

suspense: the main character may become aware of danger only gradually. In a mystery, the reader is exposed to the same information as the detective, but in a suspense story, the reader is aware of things unknown to the protagonist. The reader sees the bad guy plant the bomb, and then suffers the suspense of wondering when or if it will explode.

[bfisher]

Originally Posted by Nyssa

Are there examples of Thriller, Suspense & Crime that are neither covered by Mystery nor Horror?

Lots of good crime fiction - for example, Elmore Leonard (Get Shorty), George V. Higgins (The Friends of Eddie Coyle)

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by issybird

So, if a book about the American Revolution, say, were chosen, that means we couldn't discuss the political differences between the Patriots and the Loyalists? Or the Cavaliers and the Roundheads in the English Civil War?

Every time I've read in a thread where there are some political or religious comments, one of the staff jumps in and says to take it to the P&R forum. So I cannot see why this would be any different as technically discussing politics is only allowed in P&R.

[HomeInMyShoes]

Originally Posted by Nyssa

Are there examples of Thriller, Suspense & Crime that are neither covered by Mystery nor Horror?

Political thriller like something Tom Clancy would write might fit outside those two. While you could file it under Mystery it's pacing and tension elevate it to something that is more than Mystery and not Horror.

There you go bringing up the one category that I voted for that I didn't particular like the grouping of. For me, Mystery/Crime and Thriller would have been the two categories. Suspense is just confusing the issue and Thriller and Crime are two different beasts. I wonder if the

Originally Posted by from goodreads

Crime: The crime genre includes the broad selection of books on criminals, courts, and investigations. Mystery novels are usually placed into this category.

Mystery: Mystery fiction is a loosely-defined term that is often used as a synonym of detective fiction — in other words a novel or short story in which a detective (either professional or amateur) solves a crime. The term "mystery fiction" may sometimes be limited to the subset of detective stories in which the emphasis is on the puzzle element and its logical solution (cf. whodunit), as a contrast to hardboiled detective stories which focus on action and gritty realism. However, in more general usage "mystery" may be used to describe any form of crime fiction, even if there is no mystery to be solved. For example, the Mystery Writers of America describes itself as "the premier organization for mystery writers, professionals allied to the crime writing field, aspiring crime writers, and those who are devoted to the genre".

Thriller: Thrillers are characterized by fast pacing, frequent action, and resourceful heroes who must thwart the plans of more-powerful and better-equipped villains. Literary devices such as suspense, red herrings and cliffhangers are used extensively. Thrillers often overlap with mystery stories, but are distinguished by the structure of their plots. In a thriller, the hero must thwart the plans of an enemy, rather than uncover a crime that has already happened. Thrillers also occur on a much grander scale: the crimes that must be prevented are serial or mass murder, terrorism, assassination, or the overthrow of governments. Jeopardy and violent confrontations are standard plot elements. While a mystery climaxes when the mystery is solved, a thriller climaxes when the hero finally defeats the villain, saving his own life and often the lives of others

Suspense: Suspense is a feeling of uncertainty and anxiety about the outcome of certain actions, most often referring to an audience's perceptions in a dramatic work. Suspense is not exclusive to fiction, though. Suspense may operate in any situation where there is a lead up to a big event or dramatic moment, with tension being a primary emotion felt as part of the situation. In the kind of suspense described by film director Alfred Hitchcock, an audience experiences suspense when they expect something bad to happen and have (or believe they have) a superior perspective on events in the drama's hierarchy of knowledge, yet they are powerless to intervene to prevent it from happening. In broader definitions of suspense, this emotion arises when someone is aware of his lack of knowledge about the development of a meaningful event; thus, suspense is a combination of anticipation and uncertainty dealing with the obscurity of the future. In terms of narrative expectations, it may be contrasted with mystery or curiosity and surprise.

Horror: Horror fiction is fiction in any medium intended to scare, unsettle, or horrify the audience. Historically, the cause of the "horror" experience has often been the intrusion of a supernatural element into everyday human experience. Since the 1960s, any work of fiction with a morbid, gruesome, surreal, or exceptionally suspenseful or frightening theme has come to be called "horror". Horror fiction often overlaps science fiction or fantasy, all three of which categories are sometimes placed under the umbrella classification speculative fiction.

My take: Crime is a sub of Mystery, focusing on the criminal investigation.

Thriller/Suspense have a certain pacing to them that heightens our anxiety and tension, but Suspense isn't really a genre for me.

Horror is its own thing. It is designed to scare. While mysteries and thrillers can scare us, horror tends to try to make us nauseated to boot.

And take all of this with a grain of salt because I have been known in the past to not read much mystery and to not be impressed by it when I have read it. I think I should like it, but I keep trying.