TOC failed, oddly!

[happyjon]

Hi all,
I created a book in Open Office and successfully published in Smashwords. Then I tried another book, and every test in Smashwords was passed, including export to publishers like Barnes and Noble etc. Yet when I opened the book in ADE, well, the attached image show that the first 6 chapter titles in the TOC aren't right, to put it mildly! I've also attached the TOC as it appears in the doc, which looks fine. I'm baffled as to what's gone wrong in conversion to epub, anyone got any ideas?

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by happyjon

Hi all,
I created a book in Open Office and successfully published in Smashwords. Then I tried another book, and every test in Smashwords was passed, including export to publishers like Barnes and Noble etc. Yet when I opened the book in ADE, well, the attached image show that the first 6 chapter titles in the TOC aren't right, to put it mildly! I've also attached the TOC as it appears in the doc, which looks fine. I'm baffled as to what's gone wrong in conversion to epub, anyone got any ideas?

Well...how'd you make the ePUB? Did you make it using Calibre? Sigil? Some other program? Or are you asking us to troubleshoot a "meatgrinder" conversion, which is just Calibre's API?

The TOC you're unhappy with --is it the NCX, or is it a "typed" TOC, a toc.html?

Hitch

[happyjon]

Originally Posted by Hitch

Well...how'd you make the ePUB? Did you make it using Calibre? Sigil? Some other program? Or are you asking us to troubleshoot a "meatgrinder" conversion, which is just Calibre's API?

The TOC you're unhappy with --is it the NCX, or is it a "typed" TOC, a toc.html?

Hitch

Thanks for your reply Hitch. The epub was created in the 'meatgrinder', with a TOC created as SW demands. So yes, I'm asking if anyone has an idea as to what went wrong. SW doesn't have a forum, unfortunately.

[JSWolf]

Don't use the meatgrinder for ePub. Use it for every other format. Hand craft your ePub. That's the best way to do it. Edit it with Calibre's editor or Sigil and do it by hand. Forget Word.

Also, don't center your internal ToC. That looks awful. But in ePub, you only need an NCX ToC and not an internal ToC.

The problem in your screenshot looks like auto-chapter detect because you used a heder code for the bits that are not supposed to be part of the ToC.

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by happyjon

Thanks for your reply Hitch.

Well, don't thank me yet. I haven't done anything.

The epub was created in the 'meatgrinder', with a TOC created as SW demands.

Ah.

So yes, I'm asking if anyone has an idea as to what went wrong. SW doesn't have a forum, unfortunately.

With good reason. If they did, Mark would have to provide customer support, and I don't see that happening anytime soon.

Anyway, we, collectively, can probably help you, but...okay, so, you used OO, and once the manuscript was finished, you utilized the bookmark method, to mark the TOC entries, is that right?

And allowed the meatgrinder to them create your TOC? Is that right thus far?

And presumably, from what I see, your Chapter titles were centered? (Is that right? The formatting of the heading class, in OO, is carried over to the Calibre API toc? Guys?)

Now, while you're cogitating on that, I would point out that somewhere 'round here, one of the gang has a plugin, specifically for OO, that makes ePUBs. You might consider doing that; it would give you a LOT (lotta lot) more control over what happens, and you can submit ePUBs at SW. Just an idea....

So, confirm the method (bookmarking) and the heading class/style, and I'll think about it. There are a crapload of people here that also use OO, and hopefully, one of them will pipe up and help, too, as we make our eBooks, at my company, in HTML, into ePUBs, mobis, and I don't use a grinder of any kind. :-) But I'll help if I am able.

Hitch

[JSWolf]

Did you use styles for your eBook? You should use styles and only styles. Do not select text and apply anything to it other than a style. Also, do not apply a header code/style unless it's a ToC header.

[happyjon]

Thanks Hitch and JSWolf for assisting. To show where I am on knowledge of e-books, I created one successfully, by following the SW Style guide. What I know I learnt from that, so I followed the instructions without much understanding. Still, my first e-book was fine.
You've both raised thought provoking points, I'll get back to you when I've looked into them, they may provide the answer.
I would add that everything in the book with the wonky TOC is otherwise fine, it passed all the SW tests. The TOC was created with bookmarks and then hyperlinks within the doc, so meatgrinder takes over then. All the TOC links work, just some don't look right. It's not a problem with ADE as the TOC looks wrong in Sumatra. (Sumatra is a pdf reader but it loads epubs too). The TOC looks perfect in the pdf format.
The TOC is centred, and the style for each link is 'first line indent'. I've a feeling that's wrong, but then why are some links short of some text, but not others? Anyway, I'll now have a think about your advice, and see what I can work out.

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by happyjon

Thanks Hitch and JSWolf for assisting. To show where I am on knowledge of e-books, I created one successfully, by following the SW Style guide. What I know I learnt from that, so I followed the instructions without much understanding. Still, my first e-book was fine.
You've both raised thought provoking points, I'll get back to you when I've looked into them, they may provide the answer.
I would add that everything in the book with the wonky TOC is otherwise fine, it passed all the SW tests. The TOC was created with bookmarks and then hyperlinks within the doc, so meatgrinder takes over then. All the TOC links work, just some don't look right. It's not a problem with ADE as the TOC looks wrong in Sumatra. (Sumatra is a pdf reader but it loads epubs too). The TOC looks perfect in the pdf format.
The TOC is centred, and the style for each link is 'first line indent'. I've a feeling that's wrong, but then why are some links short of some text, but not others? Anyway, I'll now have a think about your advice, and see what I can work out.

And THAT is your problem, right there, unless I miss my guess. You should NOT have a style of "first line indent" for content that is CENTERED. Do you understand? Why that is a conflict? Centering is one type of alignment; first-line indent is a different, conflicting style.

Change the link style. Now, having said all that: I could be wrong. I'm doing this blind, but I've seen this sort of error--not this precise error--before, and it's very common for people to make alignment screwups, by using a first-line indent when they mean to center images, etc.

I hope this helps.

Hitch

[happyjon]

I see your point Hitch. centering and indent are contradictory. I've tried to modify the style, by highlighting the toc and using the modify option, but it's not taking effect. Do you think it would be best to delete the toc and start again?

[happyjon]

Originally Posted by happyjon

I see your point Hitch. centering and indent are contradictory. I've tried to modify the style, by highlighting the toc and using the modify option, but it's not taking effect. Do you think it would be best to delete the toc and start again?

I've worked out that you create the style first, then apply it. TOC, which still works, looks like attached image. Is this okay?

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by happyjon

I've worked out that you create the style first, then apply it. TOC, which still works, looks like attached image. Is this okay?

I'm not 100%, because I'm doing this at arm's length, but, if it looks like your image, yes, that's GREAT.

What's important is that your chapter heads--the ones you've bookmarked--and the TOC style--NOT conflict. So, ideally, they would have similar properties--if one is centered, so would the other be.

BUT, I would try is, as you have it, and see how the TOC looks. If that doesn't work, then go back and make the TOC style and the Chapter Head style conformed and consistent. That should do it.

OK?

Hitch

[JSWolf]

Given that this is going to be ePub, why not delete the ToC in the word processing document and use Sigil or Calibre's editor to build the ToC?

[happyjon]

Uploaded new version to SW and it's got worse. TOC is still faulty, and each title now has an otherwise blank page all to itself. I'm going to scrap the TOC and start again, maybe try it with Calibre.

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by happyjon

Uploaded new version to SW and it's got worse. TOC is still faulty, and each title now has an otherwise blank page all to itself. I'm going to scrap the TOC and start again, maybe try it with Calibre.

Then there is something still amiss.

I agree that it might be best for you to load your file, WITHOUT ANY TOC, to Calibre, and let Calibre build it for you. If you want to learn a bit more, you could export your .odt file to HTML, import that to Sigil, and then create the TOC using Sigil. YOu'll have a lot more control over the final product, if you go the Sigil route, but yes: it's more to learn than using Calibre.

I'm sorry I wasn't more help, but going effectively directly from word-processing format to ebook, via the Grinder, is definitely NOT my bailiwick. It's got to be in the Styles, however--a conflict of some kind.

Good luck, seriously.

Hitch

[happyjon]

Success! I deleted the toc and the page it was on, then had one last go at doing it myself, if that hadn't worked then I'd have tried Calibre. But it worked! I made a new style for the toc. It's simple when you get the hang of things. Reminds me of when I first submitted my art to a website. Getting to know how to handle an image editor to make sure I met all the requirements of sites I was submitting to took me some time. Same with e-books. And thanks for taking the time to help me.