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Old 03-13-2018, 09:38 AM   #1
Duolive
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Arrow To Onyx: Stop using e-Ink! Use ClearInk instead!

Hello,

it's clear that e-ink technology cannot be the future of e-paper, so I think it's the time to work with ClearInk technology or others with video-capable and colors.

https://www.clearinkdisplays.com/
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Old 03-13-2018, 10:49 AM   #2
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Hello,

it's clear that e-ink technology cannot be the future of e-paper, so I think it's the time to work with ClearInk technology or others with video-capable and colors.

https://www.clearinkdisplays.com/
If it is clear to you, maybe you will also care to clarify to the rest.

For what ClearInk ic concerned, that is of course very interesting, but last time I searched for info about them, two weekc ago, information was still scarce.

Any product in any market, even kits?
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Old 03-13-2018, 01:01 PM   #3
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They have stated that production will start in 2019. Oddly, the same promise that was made for the last couple of years. Looking at their website, there does not seem to a link for ordering samples, test kits or anything else. Until they have test kits ready to ship, how is a company supposed to start developing and testing much less manufacturing?

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Old 03-13-2018, 01:08 PM   #4
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"Low cost" is cool but what's the exact price? Where's the product I'd pay for?
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Old 03-13-2018, 02:34 PM   #5
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"Low cost" is cool but what's the exact price?
I think "Low cost" is due to the production process branching current processes for LCD. So, it should not be far from current IPS based tablets?
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Old 03-13-2018, 10:01 PM   #6
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"Stop using" a mature technology in favor of one that's little better than vaporware? Onyx would be insanely foolish to do so at least until they have an actual prototype in their hands to compare with e-Ink. Has anybody seen a third-party comparison of the rival techs?

Also, what's so breathlessly important about "video-capable and colors" in an eReader? I use my eReader to read novels -- static, black and white text novels. I would suspect that most people for whom V-C&C are important have long since bought themselves a smartphone phablet or tablet.

Yes, if somebody could develop a tech that implements V-C&C well (by which I mean competitive with LCD & OLED), in a reflective/low-power product, there'd be considerable potential for these markets to converge with eReaders. But this has been attempted a number of times before, with underwhelming results, and products that have quickly disappeared from the market, so I'm not holding my breath this time around.
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Old 03-14-2018, 03:25 AM   #7
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Also, what's so breathlessly important about "video-capable and colors" in an eReader? I use my eReader to read novels -- static, black and white text novels. I would suspect that most people for whom V-C&C are important have long since bought themselves a smartphone phablet or tablet
Err - the way you use your device is not an argument. I read completely different things in completely different contexts, and the same is valid for many other (for example, you do not need to annotate your novels, do you? Nonetheless...), and the important matter is what /will/ be valid technologies having matured (and there are even more important ones about the way some players are managing market trends, though they will remain in the preterition so we do not start political discussions).

High framerates and the dimension of color (and battery efficiency) _are_ important for an always-ready display. Now, every criterion has a weight, and its value is contextual, and current options already offer a lot. The possibilities, needs and purposes are many, and it's a good thing that the scene is evolving in the macro area of displays and in the specific territories of single technologies and products.

About ClearInk and the past attempts: they have an edge. In fact, they come after past failures.
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Old 03-14-2018, 09:05 AM   #8
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Err - the way you use your device is not an argument. I read completely different things in completely different contexts, and the same is valid for many other (for example, you do not need to annotate your novels, do you? Nonetheless...), and the important matter is what /will/ be valid technologies having matured (and there are even more important ones about the way some players are managing market trends, though they will remain in the preterition so we do not start political discussions).

High framerates and the dimension of color (and battery efficiency) _are_ important for an always-ready display. Now, every criterion has a weight, and its value is contextual, and current options already offer a lot. The possibilities, needs and purposes are many, and it's a good thing that the scene is evolving in the macro area of displays and in the specific territories of single technologies and products.

About ClearInk and the past attempts: they have an edge. In fact, they come after past failures.
True
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Old 03-14-2018, 09:10 AM   #9
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If it is clear to you, maybe you will also care to clarify to the rest.

For what ClearInk ic concerned, that is of course very interesting, but last time I searched for info about them, two weekc ago, information was still scarce.

Any product in any market, even kits?
currently, they've any product on the market but they showed us the prototype
and wins 2017 IDTechEx Award the company didn't give up and got big investment to make the first product in 2019.
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Old 03-14-2018, 12:53 PM   #10
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There is certainly a lack of data on the web site. I was able to make a wiki page CLEARink and I finally somewhat figured out how they do color which is with filters like the E Ink Triton but there are no examples or even drawings to show how this is superior to E Ink. The big missing spec is DPI. It looks like they don't really intend a pilot by themselves but are wanting someone else to fund it. They don't even list eBook Readers as a planned product. Still it is interesting and worth following.

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Old 03-14-2018, 01:31 PM   #11
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but there are no examples or even drawings to show how this is superior to E Ink
But I remember that the prototypes were somehow visible in the YouTube clips of the fairs, during the interviews of the CEO?

I remember something like "washed out, but to be seen".
Also, displays must be vetted in the cases: sunlight, outdoors, indoors, darkness. (Hence: to be seen.)

One infographic suggested an hybrid - of moving particles under electric tension and LCD.

EDIT2.2: they have developed both bistable and 33fps refresh rate displays, and the first "big" funding they received was for the latter - to have a product in the market - so it will be the latter to be initially propelled. It is cheap energy wise because it is not backlit and because the energy per pixel required is that needed to move a particle half a micron. For the "nightly" scenario, they have frontlight - which is apparently much more energy efficient than backlight (as one of their prominences stated, only around 10% of a backlight reaches the surface). It should be cheap to produce because it requires modifying only around 15% of an LCD manifacturing process, and abandons some of the steps (polarizer, backlight).

Kits were expected to be available in January.

These were info of around half 2017.

Last edited by mdp; 03-15-2018 at 04:35 AM. Reason: The backlight efficiency data
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Old 03-14-2018, 03:36 PM   #12
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Markus Reily of GoodEReader managed to explain remarkably well that otherwise possibly unclear technical name of the ClearInk technology, "TIR":

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CLEARink Displays CEO Frank Christiaens even mentions that the whites on CLEARink Display offer significantly higher reflectance (twice as much) making them whiter than the ones on E Ink!

Speaking of which, instead of using two different particles or pigments for the blacks and whites (like E Ink), CLEARink uses just the black pigment for getting the black slate; the total internal reflection (TIR) on the front surface takes care of the whites.
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Old 03-14-2018, 11:39 PM   #13
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Err - the way you use your device is not an argument.
My impression is that one of the heaviest migrations from dead-tree to eReading is in genre (i.e. Romance, SF&F, etc) fiction. I would therefore suggest that "the way {I} use {my} device" is hardly atypical.

I am questioning the unsubstantiated assumption that "video-capable and colors" are the Holy Grail of eReading.

Quote:
...for example, you do not need to annotate your novels, do you? Nonetheless...
What proportion of eReader users use annotation sufficiently heavily that increased refresh rates (which have been slowly improving under eInk in any case) would be a major selling factor?

What is the market for color on an eReader? Comic reading? If so, the colors on Clearink would have to be very vivid to compete with the OLED display on the tablet that I use for that format. If not, then the market needs to be articulated rather than simply assumed. I would also suggest that the very anemic response to earlier (admittedly imperfect) color technologies does not seem to indicate a large, pent up, demand for this feature on eReaders (as opposed to tablets/phablets/smart-phones, which already has it).

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...and the important matter is what /will/ be valid technologies having matured...
This might be a valid assertion if there was evidence that ClearInk had prototypes/developer kits out there for eReader manufacturers and opinion leaders to review, rather than having to rely on a video of a trade-fair display, let alone that they could guarantee consistency of quality (always a bugbear in the display market).

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High framerates and the dimension of color (and battery efficiency) _are_ important for an always-ready display.
You have not provided any evidence that this is sufficiently ubiquitously true in terms of how people use their eReaders for your emphatic "_are_" to be valid.

I would also point out many uses of tablets/phablets/smart-phones, involving such things as as high-quality video playback, wireless and cellular communications, gaming, etc tend to have a fairly heavy battery draw, limiting the ability of a battery-efficient display to contribute to a battery-efficient device under such usage patterns.

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Now, every criterion has a weight, and its value is contextual, and current options already offer a lot. The possibilities, needs and purposes are many, and it's a good thing that the scene is evolving in the macro area of displays and in the specific territories of single technologies and products.
Yes, but this makes a case for caution and market research, rather than simply jumping on the latest bandwagon.

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About ClearInk and the past attempts: they have an edge. In fact, they come after past failures.
That assumes that they've learned sufficiently from past failures. Only time, and the availability of actual products for review, will determine if this assumption is valid.

It remains ludicrously premature to say "To Onyx: Stop using e-Ink! Use ClearInk instead!"

Last edited by Hrafn; 03-15-2018 at 12:47 AM.
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Old 03-14-2018, 11:58 PM   #14
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My *personal* priority list for feature improvements on eReader displays

  1. Contrast
  2. Weight
  3. Robustness
  4. Refresh rate

ADDENDUM: This was assuming that eInk's current 300ppi could be matched -- according to this post, ClearInk is currently only "106 dpi". At that resolution, resolution would jump up to number one in my issues list.

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Old 03-15-2018, 12:59 AM   #15
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I would also point out that, to the extent they are targeting eReading (as opposed to Wearables, Smartphones/Tablets, Signage, Automotive displays and Electronic Shelf Labels), ClearInk is specifically targeting the "eSchoolbook" niche, rather than products Onyx is currently selling.

A couple of relevant comments from The Digital Reader blog:

Quote:
ClearInk thinks there is a market for these screens in educational devices, but that market is already being served by cheap tablet, Chromebooks, and expensive iPads.
And on the topic of "video-capable":
Quote:
If you listen carefully, you will hear that the screens are playing 30 frames per second, but only showing 8 colors. That is rather basic compared to the average tablet, which can play video for hours and hours and show millions of colors.

Last edited by Hrafn; 03-15-2018 at 01:14 AM.
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